And here I thought Government belonged to Americans and not Americans belong to government.
Here are some fellow Americans at the Democrat National Convention commenting about being owned by government and how it feels.
http://youtu.be/y5wKQ2cFw3I
Yawn. You don't like Obama, don't fucking vote him and move on. You are not without intelligence, but you love to post talking point bullshit.
The kid quoted that dickhead correctly who said the new law would allow Romney to win the state, he said nothing about ending voter fraud, he said it would help win the state. If we are to be stupid F'n and morons and believe his logic, then you would have to say that the fraud must be so rampant that Romney couldn't win without ending it. However, no such level of fraud has been proven anywhere. I dunno.
Well as a tribute to Clint Eastwood Lou, "Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining"
While I don't agree with you on everything, I respect that there are things we do agree on and I respect your intelligence enough on things that we don't agree on that I'm not going to throw some shit from Noam Chomsky at you as meaningful dissent. If an intelligent, moderate person like yourself believes these fuckheads are truly trying to preserve the integrity of our election system, then this country is in real trouble.
Has anyone even tried to ascertain the level of voter fraud? You ask this question when there are still birthers? You ask this when true whack jobs in Arizona try to get Obama off the ticket? No level of contempt you could express about Obama would bother me Lou, but when you start talking like this bullshit is about defending the integrity of elections, wow.
The election commision in each state as well as the national comission monitor election fraud. No modern incidence of large scale voter fraud has ever been found.
Mick, No one has bothered to look for voter fraud.
Blogs are hardly proof.
If they were remotely interested in voter fraud, they would require ID, proof of citizenship. They would go out and look at the registrations in each state and validate only eligible people are registered. Think the 30-40 million illegals are all staying away from the polls on election day. I think not.
Easy to say no incidence of voter fraud with the head in the sand, nope nothing here.
Cases of in-person voter fraud at the polls during election day are nearly non-existent. Do a Google search, you'll find plenty to read about it.
Here's one link with a couple of reports on it that I skimmed at random: http://www.truthaboutfraud.org/
Here's a quote from an attached report at that site titled The Truth About Voter Fraud:
"It is more likely that an individual will be struck by lightning than that he will impersonate another voter at the polls."
It just doesn't happen. Voter ID laws are simply tools used to suppress voters.
Laws like these aren't new and both parties historically are guilty of passing/trying to pass them, but I'm with Max on this.
Anybody who says they're trying to pass these laws to "protect the integrity of our electoral process" is either a booger-eatin' moron who should not hold office if he/she actually believes that bunk, or he/she is just flat out fuckin' lying to you.
Current Voter ID Laws are the 21st century equivalent of the Poll Tax. Pure and simple.
Here, let me put it to you another way. Let's take a swing state like Ohio:
Ohio has a population of about 12 million people. Let's say for the sake of my hypothetical, 9 million of those people are eligible voters. Of that 9M, you can reasonably expect about 4.5 million to vote.
If you were tasked with fixing an election, how many fraudulent votes do you think it would take to swing a state like Ohio?
My guess is you would need at least 8% - let's say 10% for the sake of mathematical ease. So to swing Ohio your way, you would need 450,000 fraudulent votes casts.
How many in-person fraudsters would you need to pull that off? At most 450K, right - each fraudster casting a fake vote.
Now let's say you have very productive fraudsters that can show up at the polls and cast 10 different votes as 10 different people. That's still 45K fraudsters you'd need to hire and 450K separate identities you'd need to come up with.
So you're gonna coordinate that many people to perform a massive fraud all in about a 15 hour window of time while keeping it a secret?
Keep in mind you'd have to repeat that process in every other swing state including more populous ones like Florida. You're probably gonna need a minimum of 5 million in-person fraudulent voters to swing a national election.
It's be a total clusterfuck.
In real life it can't be done and I think you're too smart to eve try it that way.
Wouldn't you just get a few hackers with their iPhone apps that can change 10-20k ballots at a time and can get in and out of a polling center in under 5 minutes? Maybe have a hard drive full of thousands of uncounted votes magically appear on some WI elections official's desk? That's how I would do it.
At best, Voter ID laws are a solution in search of a problem, one that doesn't exist. At worst, it's the Poll Tax all over again.
Pflunky and Max and Louman and other friends. Can I suggest that voter fraud can be eliminated in one easy stroke? Follow the Australian way and introduce compulsory voting. It is simple, you get on the list by registering (compulsory process) and you attend the polling place in person (except in some circumstances)) You vote and place the ballot paper in the box. Job done and you leave. \The objection of over regulation is invalid if you consider the responsibility we all have to elect the government. By the way, you can enter a spoilt ballot paper (invalid vote) without penalty to display your dissatisfaction with all candidates. Cheers from Aussie
pfunky, your short term memory does not allow you to reflect on a small election problem that occurred during Bush v Gore. A few hundred votes one way or the other set us on a vote checking national nightmare. As I recall the dems were quite upset when the supremes had to settle the issue.
Why is it so hard to prove who you are? If you can't make it down to the town hall to get your ID then how can you make it down to the town hall to vote?
Voting is our most precious process and duty. When someone walks in the door to vote in a small town everyone knows who they are. When someone walks into the door to vote in a major city in most cases no one knows or cares who they are.
The red color on the map represents the more conservative and in many cases rural districts. The blue color represents largely liberal centers.
Who might you suppose has the more likely chance of fraud?
And of course it's critical to implement this less then a year out from the election? It's critical to reduce the time that polls are open in strongly Democratic neighborhoods? It's critical reduce the length of early voting that appeals to so many people?
You don't make shit smell sweeter by calling it dung.
DI, my short term memory is fine. The problems in 2000 had absolutely nothing to do with voters being able to ID themselves. Nothing.
I've never said that fraud doesn't occur. It just that it occurs in the tallying process or through vote suppression. If you really want to go after election fraud, that's where you should focus.
People showing up in person at the polls on election day to cast fraudulent votes almost never happens. It just doesn't.
This is a trial posting, the first on this new site. I have been assisted by the patience of Louman who has held the hand of an ancient during the process of accessing and getting registered on this site. It id/has been a laborious process and the terminology is incomprehensible to an ancient. My thanks to Louman and I shall now join in what just may be a good site for the sharing of views.
Yawn. You don't like Obama, don't fucking vote him and move on. You are not without intelligence, but you love to post talking point bullshit.
ReplyDeleteThe kid quoted that dickhead correctly who said the new law would allow Romney to win the state, he said nothing about ending voter fraud, he said it would help win the state. If we are to be stupid F'n and morons and believe his logic, then you would have to say that the fraud must be so rampant that Romney couldn't win without ending it. However, no such level of fraud has been proven anywhere. I dunno.
Hey Max. Has anyone even tried to ascertain the level of voter fraud?
DeleteI would say the answer is no as the government with their head in the sand doesn't want to know as then they would have to do something about it.
Well as a tribute to Clint Eastwood Lou, "Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining"
DeleteWhile I don't agree with you on everything, I respect that there are things we do agree on and I respect your intelligence enough on things that we don't agree on that I'm not going to throw some shit from Noam Chomsky at you as meaningful dissent. If an intelligent, moderate person like yourself believes these fuckheads are truly trying to preserve the integrity of our election system, then this country is in real trouble.
Has anyone even tried to ascertain the level of voter fraud? You ask this question when there are still birthers? You ask this when true whack jobs in Arizona try to get Obama off the ticket? No level of contempt you could express about Obama would bother me Lou, but when you start talking like this bullshit is about defending the integrity of elections, wow.
The election commision in each state as well as the national comission monitor election fraud. No modern incidence of large scale voter fraud has ever been found.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/lets-play-voter-fraud-whack-a-mole/2012/08/08/99f9b66c-e18e-11e1-89f7-76e23a982d06_blog.html
Mick,
ReplyDeleteNo one has bothered to look for voter fraud.
Blogs are hardly proof.
If they were remotely interested in voter fraud, they would require ID, proof of citizenship. They would go out and look at the registrations in each state and validate only eligible people are registered. Think the 30-40 million illegals are all staying away from the polls on election day. I think not.
Easy to say no incidence of voter fraud with the head in the sand, nope nothing here.
123
ReplyDeleteCases of in-person voter fraud at the polls during election day are nearly non-existent. Do a Google search, you'll find plenty to read about it.
ReplyDeleteHere's one link with a couple of reports on it that I skimmed at random: http://www.truthaboutfraud.org/
Here's a quote from an attached report at that site titled The Truth About Voter Fraud:
"It is more likely that an individual will
be struck by lightning than that he will
impersonate another voter at the polls."
It just doesn't happen. Voter ID laws are simply tools used to suppress voters.
Laws like these aren't new and both parties historically are guilty of passing/trying to pass them, but I'm with Max on this.
Anybody who says they're trying to pass these laws to "protect the integrity of our electoral process" is either a booger-eatin' moron who should not hold office if he/she actually believes that bunk, or he/she is just flat out fuckin' lying to you.
Current Voter ID Laws are the 21st century equivalent of the Poll Tax. Pure and simple.
Perhaps after this election with fraud being limited we will have a chance to measure the effect.
DeleteIf fraud isn't rampant then why worry? Those without valid ID still have over 60 days to find their way to the town hall and obtain it.
1773-2009
Oh please, DI.
DeleteHere, let me put it to you another way. Let's take a swing state like Ohio:
Ohio has a population of about 12 million people. Let's say for the sake of my hypothetical, 9 million of those people are eligible voters. Of that 9M, you can reasonably expect about 4.5 million to vote.
If you were tasked with fixing an election, how many fraudulent votes do you think it would take to swing a state like Ohio?
My guess is you would need at least 8% - let's say 10% for the sake of mathematical ease. So to swing Ohio your way, you would need 450,000 fraudulent votes casts.
How many in-person fraudsters would you need to pull that off? At most 450K, right - each fraudster casting a fake vote.
Now let's say you have very productive fraudsters that can show up at the polls and cast 10 different votes as 10 different people. That's still 45K fraudsters you'd need to hire and 450K separate identities you'd need to come up with.
So you're gonna coordinate that many people to perform a massive fraud all in about a 15 hour window of time while keeping it a secret?
Keep in mind you'd have to repeat that process in every other swing state including more populous ones like Florida. You're probably gonna need a minimum of 5 million in-person fraudulent voters to swing a national election.
It's be a total clusterfuck.
In real life it can't be done and I think you're too smart to eve try it that way.
Wouldn't you just get a few hackers with their iPhone apps that can change 10-20k ballots at a time and can get in and out of a polling center in under 5 minutes? Maybe have a hard drive full of thousands of uncounted votes magically appear on some WI elections official's desk? That's how I would do it.
At best, Voter ID laws are a solution in search of a problem, one that doesn't exist. At worst, it's the Poll Tax all over again.
"At best, Voter ID laws are a solution in search of a problem, one that doesn't exist. At worst, it's the Poll Tax all over again."
DeleteIt's what you call Republican social engineering.
Yeah,
Delete"Voter ID Law" is Orwellian for "Poor People Voter Suppression".
Pflunky and Max and Louman and other friends.
DeleteCan I suggest that voter fraud can be eliminated in one easy stroke? Follow the Australian way and introduce compulsory voting. It is simple, you get on the list by registering (compulsory process) and you attend the polling place in person (except in some circumstances)) You vote and place the ballot paper in the box. Job done and you leave. \The objection of over regulation is invalid if you consider the responsibility we all have to elect the government. By the way, you can enter a spoilt ballot paper (invalid vote) without penalty to display your dissatisfaction with all candidates.
Cheers from Aussie
pfunky, your short term memory does not allow you to reflect on a small election problem that occurred during Bush v Gore. A few hundred votes one way or the other set us on a vote checking national nightmare. As I recall the dems were quite upset when the supremes had to settle the issue.
DeleteWhy is it so hard to prove who you are? If you can't make it down to the town hall to get your ID then how can you make it down to the town hall to vote?
Voting is our most precious process and duty. When someone walks in the door to vote in a small town everyone knows who they are. When someone walks into the door to vote in a major city in most cases no one knows or cares who they are.
The red color on the map represents the more conservative and in many cases rural districts. The blue color represents largely liberal centers.
Who might you suppose has the more likely chance of fraud?
And of course it's critical to implement this less then a year out from the election? It's critical to reduce the time that polls are open in strongly Democratic neighborhoods? It's critical reduce the length of early voting that appeals to so many people?
DeleteYou don't make shit smell sweeter by calling it dung.
DI, my short term memory is fine. The problems in 2000 had absolutely nothing to do with voters being able to ID themselves. Nothing.
DeleteI've never said that fraud doesn't occur. It just that it occurs in the tallying process or through vote suppression. If you really want to go after election fraud, that's where you should focus.
People showing up in person at the polls on election day to cast fraudulent votes almost never happens. It just doesn't.
This is a trial posting, the first on this new site. I have been assisted by the patience of Louman who has held the hand of an ancient during the process of accessing and getting registered on this site. It id/has been a laborious process and the terminology is incomprehensible to an ancient. My thanks to Louman and I shall now join in what just may be a good site for the sharing of views.
ReplyDeleteCheers from Aussie ( Kingston)
Welcome aboard Kingston.
DeleteCheers!