If you aren't watching it live, you owe yourselves a favor to find Christie's speech on youtube. It was an excellent political speech. He identified specific problems and laid out an open road for compromise to resolve them. He actually had a theme of personal responsibility and integrity among political leaders...excellent, my fluffy buddy!!!
Momma Romney needs a little toughening up before the next appearance. She came across as a combination of a Stepford wife and the plantation massa lady. I wasn't buying the come from nothing story...
The whole convention came across as Stepford itself so she fit right in. They can't even respect the other people who ran as candidates enough to say their names. Did you know that Ron Paul was nominated from the floor?... Probably not. Did you know that a call of division was made over the adoption of the rules? Probably not. Even with all of the underhanded workings of the party throughout the primaries, Ron Paul carried 10% of the vote last night and they didn't even have the respect to say his name.... Absolute sham in the name of a democratic process....... Romney and the republican party will be a varied form of Obama who was a varied form of Bush. To keep Ron Paul silent at the convention, they have written in some of planks into the platform but little if any will show up as Romney policy ....and they will wave flags for some of the ideas... like integrity, but you can bet that Romney has none because his campaign thus far has shown that he has none. No, last nights exhibition has, IMHO sealed the fate of this election. Too many people were looking for something different from the Republican party.. both Republicans and Independents and all they are getting is more of the distorted, perverted GOP we have come to know.... I am afraid we will find we have Obama for 4 more years..... and that is a scary thought. Perhaps Ann Romney is truly representative of a broken party.
The party conventions have become relatively meaningless pageants where the most noted and the up-and-comers come out, don their bikinis, give a pretty speech, and jiggle their boobs for the American people. Pure fluff.
We're either going to have Romney as president, or else Obama. Not Ron Paul, not Rick Santorum, not anyone else. I don't get the issue with Paul. At this point, if there is any merit to the preference of Romney over Obama, I think it's reasonable to expect the party to show UNITY, and leave the limelight on the nominees. If Romney is not the favorite choice of some, some thought really ought to be given to getting past that, as it's either going to be R or O. Distorted GOP? Even if that were the case, one has to decide, at the worst, which is the lesser of two evils. My view is the Romney is far and away the better choice. Far and away.
What I find disturbing is that it seems to be a fact of life that these conventions are influential to some voters. They shouldn't be, but I guess that is reflective of the depth of knowledge, and of susceptibility to superfluous drivel, of some (a lot?)of the voting population. Note at the apparent effectiveness of the stupid attack ads.
Jean - Wow, I don't even know were to start with a response.
One can but wonder why we have such a broken government. I would say that most people on both sides of the political divide would share your opinions. People who do not follow or understand the political process as it is suppose to be and who blindly follow the candidate that the national political parties chooses for them would have your opinion. Most people believe that the candidates are chosen for their political parties during the primaries voting..... most people would be wrong. Most people should study and be enraged by the process that occurred in this election cycle with respect to the Republican nomination process. I say this election cycle because, that which has occurred in the pass elections, was blatant and unrepentant in this one, yet, because people follow the current flock of 'leadership' chosen pundits, they don't pay attention to all of the real issues.
"We're either going to have Romney as president, or else Obama. Not Ron Paul, not Rick Santorum, not anyone else. I don't get the issue with Paul."
First of all their were two candidates who were eligible and RUNNING for the Republican nomination. You NEVER heard Ron Paul say that he was ending his campaign, you never heard that Ron Paul was releasing his delegates to anyone and you never heard Ron Paul give his support to anyone else... why would he... He was still running. You may have heard your favorite flavor of MSM elude to the fact that he dropped out... but he didn't.
Ron Paul entered that NOMINATING CONVENTION (that is what it is you know) as a candidate which, by the rules, he was eligible to do by carrying the majority of votes in 5 states (He carried 6) (bet you believed the MSM that said he didn't have any).... until a rule change that occurred yesterday was pushed through. That rule change was challenged on the floor and ignored by the chair as was Ron Paul's nomination from the floor. UNITY comes from a fair contest of honest debate and following the rules... UNITY comes after the delegate roll call, not before.
Now you will say that one should look at the lopsided vote, and I will ask you how many state conventions actively colluded to deprive Ron Paul of votes. Maine LOST the votes for 3 districts. All three of those districts were curiously heavily in support of RP. At the state delegate convention a majority of RP delegates were fairly elected and, like occurred in several other states, in various iterations, the republican establishment striped those delegates of their credentials and installed their own Romney delegates by the bending, breaking and just flat ignoring the rules. Did you know that the Maine delegation almost walked out yesterday because of this? (Even the Romney delegates knew it was a heist) Did you know that the Virgina delegation was held on a bus until after the vote on the adoption of the rules? Did you know that all of this has been happening for days and weeks and months before the convention? Do you know that their is still an open law suit on behalf of almost 200 RP delegates in several states that were replaced without just cause. You say 'only' 200... thats a 400 vote change at the convention and it doesn't even encompass many other 'irregularities' in many other states.
I love the comment "What I find disturbing is that it seems to be a fact of life that these conventions are influential to some voters. They shouldn't be, but I guess that is reflective of the depth of knowledge, and of susceptibility to superfluous drivel, of some (a lot?)of the voting population."
Given that this IS the nominating process for candidates the PEOPLE actually have some control over, I find it rather astonishing that you find the part of the democratic process that is actually driven and effected by the grassroots to be 'superflous drivel'.. but then again, as I said, you probably thought the candidates were selected in the primaries.
As for the "Distorted GOP?".... You reconcile for me the positions of the liberty loving, constitution embracing, capitalism supporting, small government conservatives who support NDAA, TSA, Homeland Security, Drones, the incarceration of people for smoking a joint in the privacy of their own homes that has cost this country some 10million man days of Americans lives, the repealing of the only sensible piece of business regulation to be written in the last 90 years that turned big banks into out of control predictors in the name of capitalism but never talk about the corruption and synergy between the government, the Fed and large banks and corporations?, the biggest expansion of Medicare ever, imperialist aspirations of a nation who not 30 years ago told other countries about the right of self determination and national sovereignty, who now routinely meddle, manipulate, pressure, buy, sell, bribe, overthrow and destroy... on a hunch, preemptively and to people who can't even throw rocks much less launch an attack on us...... not the conservative party I use to think held the moral high ground.
Don't get me wrong, I'm am in no way giving Democrats a free pass when it comes to the cleanliness of their party. Hillary was stripped of her chance to be president by some of the very same processes that effected Ron Paul. Because she received so much support from women, the count was much closer and couldn't be 'regulated' as well but make no mistake, the Obamas machine took his nomination just like Romney did.... So democrats can look at the GOP convention and laugh but at the end of the day, let them bring up a grassroots candidate that doesn't meet with the DNC's approval and see how far they get.
As for the lesser of 2 evils.. You can certainly give your vote to whom ever you choose. I have never voted that way and never will. I have always voted my conscience and what is best for the country. The last five have been for people who have some real ideas and beliefs, integrity and in the case of Ron Paul a consistent voting record to back it up. Some say that I wasted my votes... One day, given that we still have some semblance of free elections in the future, all of those 'wasted votes' are going to turn the two major parties on their ear. A growing number of people are getting tired of the politics as they currently exist. A growing number of people have finally realized the by maintaining the political divide, the RNC and DNC, with the financial support of their benefactors can continue to run this country into the ground.
Thank you TS for this post. I agree with basically everything you said, including how the Democrats did a similar thing once Obama was crowned. Obama is not the progressive that a guy like Dennis Kucinnich is, and Romney is not a conservative in the way a guy like Santorum is. The true base of both parties do not get a significant voice and are immediately marginalized when the primaries are over.
We are told that the strategy of every campaign is to pivot to the center after the primaries in order to appeal to the independent/moderate voters. However, once it's all done, there isn't a damn thing in Washington that is done on a bipartisan bases, nor is there any attempt at compromise made. As for the base voters, they don't get anything either. Bush conceded to donors and neocons, Obama has conceded to donors and wall street.
I can only hope that a third party truly does become viable, but I"m not optimistic.
The problem Max is that my comments will come down on partisan lines. I am getting general agreement from the 'lefties' on this forum with regard to these comments. But I can bet 100% that if a Ron Paul type of libertarian ran against the Obama machine and they did exactly what happened to Ron Paul with Romney and the RNC.... I would get a lot of "Yeah, look at those scandalous Democrats".. from 'righties'. and some of the folks who are agreeing with me now would be saying that I should shut up and get behind Obama to defeat the Republicans....
I'd say the real problem TS is that there is no longer any room in politics for a principled center. If anyone takes on honest look at the way legislation has been passed since 2000, it has been very heavy handed regardless of who is in power. I forget who the Republican was who recently retired somewhere back east who is alleged to have been a moderate. One shot he made was that his party today expects him give them both his vote and his wallet. I'm sure it's no different on the left.
Up until now, I've always considered the Democrats the party of T-ball wherein everyone gets a trophy. You are probably correct that this is no longer the case. I have specific gripes with Libertarians, but I also have a lot of agreement with them about things that should be decriminalized. The Democratic convention will be just a dog and pony show, we'll see what happens in 2016 after four more years of both sides playing winner take all.
If you aren't watching it live, you owe yourselves a favor to find Christie's speech on youtube. It was an excellent political speech. He identified specific problems and laid out an open road for compromise to resolve them. He actually had a theme of personal responsibility and integrity among political leaders...excellent, my fluffy buddy!!!
ReplyDeleteI watched the whole thing-----sigh
DeleteMomma Romney needs a little toughening up before the next appearance. She came across as a combination of a Stepford wife and the plantation massa lady. I wasn't buying the come from nothing story...
ReplyDeleteThe whole convention came across as Stepford itself so she fit right in. They can't even respect the other people who ran as candidates enough to say their names. Did you know that Ron Paul was nominated from the floor?... Probably not. Did you know that a call of division was made over the adoption of the rules? Probably not. Even with all of the underhanded workings of the party throughout the primaries, Ron Paul carried 10% of the vote last night and they didn't even have the respect to say his name.... Absolute sham in the name of a democratic process....... Romney and the republican party will be a varied form of Obama who was a varied form of Bush. To keep Ron Paul silent at the convention, they have written in some of planks into the platform but little if any will show up as Romney policy ....and they will wave flags for some of the ideas... like integrity, but you can bet that Romney has none because his campaign thus far has shown that he has none. No, last nights exhibition has, IMHO sealed the fate of this election. Too many people were looking for something different from the Republican party.. both Republicans and Independents and all they are getting is more of the distorted, perverted GOP we have come to know.... I am afraid we will find we have Obama for 4 more years..... and that is a scary thought. Perhaps Ann Romney is truly representative of a broken party.
ReplyDeleteThe party conventions have become relatively meaningless pageants where the most noted and the up-and-comers come out, don their bikinis, give a pretty speech, and jiggle their boobs for the American people. Pure fluff.
DeleteGreat post, TS, about the Pubs. Spot on.
TheScott,
DeleteWe're either going to have Romney as president, or else Obama. Not Ron Paul, not Rick Santorum, not anyone else. I don't get the issue with Paul. At this point, if there is any merit to the preference of Romney over Obama, I think it's reasonable to expect the party to show UNITY, and leave the limelight on the nominees. If Romney is not the favorite choice of some, some thought really ought to be given to getting past that, as it's either going to be R or O. Distorted GOP? Even if that were the case, one has to decide, at the worst, which is the lesser of two evils. My view is the Romney is far and away the better choice. Far and away.
What I find disturbing is that it seems to be a fact of life that these conventions are influential to some voters. They shouldn't be, but I guess that is reflective of the depth of knowledge, and of susceptibility to superfluous drivel, of some (a lot?)of the voting population. Note at the apparent effectiveness of the stupid attack ads.
Jean
Scott-------"No, last nights exhibition has, IMHO sealed the fate of this election."
DeleteNailed it------you just nailed it. I watched the proceedings of the convention with the expectation of purpose, clarity and direction.
We got NONE of it.
Jean - Wow, I don't even know were to start with a response.
DeleteOne can but wonder why we have such a broken government. I would say that most people on both sides of the political divide would share your opinions. People who do not follow or understand the political process as it is suppose to be and who blindly follow the candidate that the national political parties chooses for them would have your opinion. Most people believe that the candidates are chosen for their political parties during the primaries voting..... most people would be wrong. Most people should study and be enraged by the process that occurred in this election cycle with respect to the Republican nomination process. I say this election cycle because, that which has occurred in the pass elections, was blatant and unrepentant in this one, yet, because people follow the current flock of 'leadership' chosen pundits, they don't pay attention to all of the real issues.
"We're either going to have Romney as president, or else Obama. Not Ron Paul, not Rick Santorum, not anyone else. I don't get the issue with Paul."
First of all their were two candidates who were eligible and RUNNING for the Republican nomination. You NEVER heard Ron Paul say that he was ending his campaign, you never heard that Ron Paul was releasing his delegates to anyone and you never heard Ron Paul give his support to anyone else... why would he... He was still running. You may have heard your favorite flavor of MSM elude to the fact that he dropped out... but he didn't.
Ron Paul entered that NOMINATING CONVENTION (that is what it is you know) as a candidate which, by the rules, he was eligible to do by carrying the majority of votes in 5 states (He carried 6) (bet you believed the MSM that said he didn't have any).... until a rule change that occurred yesterday was pushed through. That rule change was challenged on the floor and ignored by the chair as was Ron Paul's nomination from the floor. UNITY comes from a fair contest of honest debate and following the rules... UNITY comes after the delegate roll call, not before.
Now you will say that one should look at the lopsided vote, and I will ask you how many state conventions actively colluded to deprive Ron Paul of votes. Maine LOST the votes for 3 districts. All three of those districts were curiously heavily in support of RP. At the state delegate convention a majority of RP delegates were fairly elected and, like occurred in several other states, in various iterations, the republican establishment striped those delegates of their credentials and installed their own Romney delegates by the bending, breaking and just flat ignoring the rules. Did you know that the Maine delegation almost walked out yesterday because of this? (Even the Romney delegates knew it was a heist) Did you know that the Virgina delegation was held on a bus until after the vote on the adoption of the rules? Did you know that all of this has been happening for days and weeks and months before the convention? Do you know that their is still an open law suit on behalf of almost 200 RP delegates in several states that were replaced without just cause. You say 'only' 200... thats a 400 vote change at the convention and it doesn't even encompass many other 'irregularities' in many other states.
I love the comment "What I find disturbing is that it seems to be a fact of life that these conventions are influential to some voters. They shouldn't be, but I guess that is reflective of the depth of knowledge, and of susceptibility to superfluous drivel, of some (a lot?)of the voting population."
Given that this IS the nominating process for candidates the PEOPLE actually have some control over, I find it rather astonishing that you find the part of the democratic process that is actually driven and effected by the grassroots to be 'superflous drivel'.. but then again, as I said, you probably thought the candidates were selected in the primaries.
As for the "Distorted GOP?".... You reconcile for me the positions of the liberty loving, constitution embracing, capitalism supporting, small government conservatives who support NDAA, TSA, Homeland Security, Drones, the incarceration of people for smoking a joint in the privacy of their own homes that has cost this country some 10million man days of Americans lives, the repealing of the only sensible piece of business regulation to be written in the last 90 years that turned big banks into out of control predictors in the name of capitalism but never talk about the corruption and synergy between the government, the Fed and large banks and corporations?, the biggest expansion of Medicare ever, imperialist aspirations of a nation who not 30 years ago told other countries about the right of self determination and national sovereignty, who now routinely meddle, manipulate, pressure, buy, sell, bribe, overthrow and destroy... on a hunch, preemptively and to people who can't even throw rocks much less launch an attack on us...... not the conservative party I use to think held the moral high ground.
DeleteDon't get me wrong, I'm am in no way giving Democrats a free pass when it comes to the cleanliness of their party. Hillary was stripped of her chance to be president by some of the very same processes that effected Ron Paul. Because she received so much support from women, the count was much closer and couldn't be 'regulated' as well but make no mistake, the Obamas machine took his nomination just like Romney did.... So democrats can look at the GOP convention and laugh but at the end of the day, let them bring up a grassroots candidate that doesn't meet with the DNC's approval and see how far they get.
As for the lesser of 2 evils.. You can certainly give your vote to whom ever you choose. I have never voted that way and never will. I have always voted my conscience and what is best for the country. The last five have been for people who have some real ideas and beliefs, integrity and in the case of Ron Paul a consistent voting record to back it up. Some say that I wasted my votes... One day, given that we still have some semblance of free elections in the future, all of those 'wasted votes' are going to turn the two major parties on their ear. A growing number of people are getting tired of the politics as they currently exist. A growing number of people have finally realized the by maintaining the political divide, the RNC and DNC, with the financial support of their benefactors can continue to run this country into the ground.
Thank you TS for this post. I agree with basically everything you said, including how the Democrats did a similar thing once Obama was crowned. Obama is not the progressive that a guy like Dennis Kucinnich is, and Romney is not a conservative in the way a guy like Santorum is. The true base of both parties do not get a significant voice and are immediately marginalized when the primaries are over.
ReplyDeleteWe are told that the strategy of every campaign is to pivot to the center after the primaries in order to appeal to the independent/moderate voters. However, once it's all done, there isn't a damn thing in Washington that is done on a bipartisan bases, nor is there any attempt at compromise made. As for the base voters, they don't get anything either. Bush conceded to donors and neocons, Obama has conceded to donors and wall street.
I can only hope that a third party truly does become viable, but I"m not optimistic.
The problem Max is that my comments will come down on partisan lines. I am getting general agreement from the 'lefties' on this forum with regard to these comments. But I can bet 100% that if a Ron Paul type of libertarian ran against the Obama machine and they did exactly what happened to Ron Paul with Romney and the RNC.... I would get a lot of "Yeah, look at those scandalous Democrats".. from 'righties'. and some of the folks who are agreeing with me now would be saying that I should shut up and get behind Obama to defeat the Republicans....
DeleteI'd say the real problem TS is that there is no longer any room in politics for a principled center. If anyone takes on honest look at the way legislation has been passed since 2000, it has been very heavy handed regardless of who is in power. I forget who the Republican was who recently retired somewhere back east who is alleged to have been a moderate. One shot he made was that his party today expects him give them both his vote and his wallet. I'm sure it's no different on the left.
DeleteUp until now, I've always considered the Democrats the party of T-ball wherein everyone gets a trophy. You are probably correct that this is no longer the case. I have specific gripes with Libertarians, but I also have a lot of agreement with them about things that should be decriminalized. The Democratic convention will be just a dog and pony show, we'll see what happens in 2016 after four more years of both sides playing winner take all.