Biden was the epitome of the Supressives disdain for anyone but themselves. “Rude” is underexpressive.
Biden demonstrated the adage of dazzle if you can but bullshit if you can’t. I was purrty much lost and disconnected from Biden responses for the first hour or so.
And to say Bengahzi never asked for additional security is mindboggling based on current facts.
I agree on that. Both did exactly what they needed to do, and for at least a few hours, liberals can be happy that at someone stepped up and called bullshit. Biden was condescending and after the Obama disaster, someone needed to step up and get in Ryan's grill. To his credit, Ryan avoided THE single thing he needed to avoid, he avoided losing his cool and avoided looking like the pompous asshole who storms out of interviews or condescends to reporters. Republicans today are whining about Biden's condescension. That's telling.
To me, I think both clearly laid out where their hearts lie and offered a contrast. If there is a low information voter out there hoping this would help them, 90% of what was discussed likely went over their heads. Will women care more that Ryan won the Libya discussion then what he said about abortion? Will independents actually consider that maybe Ryan and Romney are full shit of on their tax plan that they won't give any hard details about? Ryan made some really strong arguments, but did he make them on things that matter to an alleged swing voter? My gut says no.
Romney's claims in his debate were dissected quite a bit the day after, just like Paul Ryan's speech at the convention. Meh, I can handle being called an asshole TD, I'm not going to lose sleep over it. You are showing a good example of how the right doesn't subscribe to divisiveness.
Asshole that I may be TD, ask yourself a question, who do you want wiping yours someday and deciding whether or not you really deserve a pain shot, a jaded Republican who thinks everyone is trying to get a freebie, or a communist liberal like me?
The question everyone should ask, would you vote for Joe Biden for president? Is the the person we want representing out country should something happen to our president? Sometimes it's something as simple as that that will determine a vote.
I had to ask the same question when Dan Quale was standing up there.
Well, if you actually support a liberal idea of what a middle class should be, you might actually get more then lip service on that like we do from Obama. Biden is old school. The smirking and condescension was planned, but his passion when he speaks is not fake. I wish I could say the same every time I hear Obama talk.
There are no undecided voters on this site Lou, we are all voting against something rather then for it.
Where was the discussion on immigration? Where was the discussion on education? And Why did the moderator let Joe Biden interrupt 90 times? Because she wanted him to. The moderator showed plenty of strength and control over the conversation, she could have put Joe in his place. Then she brought up the abortion issue which is a NON ISSUE this year. That's why Romney closed the gap with female voters. But we knew going in she was biased, it would just be a matter of how well she could disguise that bias. CNN said that there were THREE debaters.
"Then she brought up the abortion issue which is a NON ISSUE this year."
There you are dead wrong. When Ryan paused on that question, he sounded like Jerry Sandusky did when Costa's asked him if he found children sexually attractive. Abortion is no longer a Non Issue live because as Ryan point out last night, he has a very narrow view of when it should be legal to have an abortion. He also made it clear that a Romney/Ryan ticket is NOT pro choice. That is an unmistakable contrast.
It is decided LAW Max. Romney has already said that he has NO PLANS to remove abortion rights. His only plan is to remove abortion subsidies. No one who opposes abortion should be forced to subsidize it. Planned parenthood can operate on its own without the Government. Abortions won't go away. It is not the role of Government to provide abortion subsidies. Even if the Supreme Court one day reversed Rowe versus Wade that does not outlaw abortions. It then becomes a STATE ISSUE up to each state's voters on whether or not they want abortions in their state. This is all FEAR MONGERING.
It's decided Law NOW live. In multiple states, Republican governs are creating a de facto outlaw on abortions. Currently, Roe v Wade is the law of the land. Locally, Republicans are writing so many restrictions that apply to ONLY abortion facilities that they are making it illegal despite the law of the land.
You have, however, made my day. Your comments here and level of anger and use of the term fear mongering means you see it exactly the way I do and understand that his answer is going to turn off A LOT of women voters. That's known as a tell Live. Thanks for sharing that. LOL
Biden interrupted Ryan 90 times, the moderator interrupted Ryan 30 times. That's 120 times in his 40 minutes. Once every 20 seconds. How can you make a point if you are being interrupted every 20 seconds? You can't. I bet Ryan's real time allotment was around 20 minutes once you subtract out the interruptions.
One final comment I think, the liberals who were already going to vote for Obama are ecstatic with Biden's performance. Romney supporters saw Biden's behavior as reflective of what has been wrong with the Obama administration from day one. Disrespectful, condescending, not willing to hear the other side. But those votes were already Romney's.
Where Biden hurt the Dems in the debate are with undecideds. Those who are disillusioned with the divisive tone in DC.
"Romney supporters saw Biden's behavior as reflective of what has been wrong with the Obama administration from day one."
The fact that Obama wakes up and breathes every day is an affront to Republicans. Ryan, when confronted about things he doesn't want to talk about, is just as much of a pompous asshole. Liberals today are happy because for once, OUR asshole was a bigger asshole than yours. This doesn't make the campaign smell any better of course.
Obama's style with Health Care and other legistlation is SCREW the opposition. Republican style has most always been to compromise and reach across the isle. There are lots of ways to eliminate loopholes. One proposal under consideration is limiting the maximum deduction the wealthy can take, such as 17,000 dollars. But why pidgeon hole yourself and be a bully like Obama? Just because Obama hasn't reached across the isle doesn't mean that Republicans won't.
"Republican style has most always been to compromise and reach across the isle. " Livestrongest
Elections have consequences - John McCain
"“The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president,” Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell
“Well, that is true,” McConnell replied. “That’s my single most important political goal, along with every active Republican in the country.”
Filibusters- you can draw your own conclusions here http://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/reference/cloture_motions/clotureCounts.htm it's not as straightforward, the sheer numbers of cloture motions does not tell the whole story. Still, once Bush became POTUS, they dropped and then doubled once the Republicans lost the senate.
Here's a sweet little ditty from Richard Mourdock "'I’m just against compromise, we need to stop it, it’s weak, it’s foolish, our views are irreconcilable, we have to force the American people to choose which one of us is right"
I get it Live, Democrats, when they held a majority, passed legislation you don't like and therefore it's a hot poker up your backside and an outrage and abuse of power. You don't want compromise, you want a majority back so that people you support can tell Democrats to F off.
The debate was run live here in Australia and I was able to watch it over lunch. What were my impressions? Firstly both performed at the level one would expect from the "B"team. I thought Biden was more assured and factual and his opponent relied on the age old tactic of tear down the house before having a plan to rebuild the dwelling. The math was flaky on both sides and there was little detailed information from either as to the tactics to rein in the deficit. Biden made a good point re the 47% which will hound Romney until the election and Ryan was visibly uncomfortable during this exchange. To paraphrase Ryan “sometimes the words just come out wrong". This would be a bit of a problem for Romney in delicate foreign affairs talks! I seem to remember GWB had a similar problem although it did not prove to be insurmountable. It did however reduce Bush to a fool in the eyes of many of his allies. This is a fascinating contest between the two major parties and if nothing else it reminds us Aussies that ours is not the only political system which smells like a dung heap. Cheers from Aussie
K, The simplest things escape us when listening to a scripted debate. A debate is an exchange of ideas and values. When a person is interrupted, talked down to is this a professional at work or a bully at play.
I expect to much from politicians as I hope to see professionalism, which is so often missing. For lack of a better term, Mr. Biden referred to Romney and Ryan which is sarcasm at it's best and should have been addressed as such. How can you respect the office or the man when this is what we put into office.
We put people like GWB and Clinton into office and now the team that's at the plate. It speaks volumes of the character of the American people. Why is it that we don't have our best or our brightest serving in the oval office and on their staff? The answer to me is it's the toxic environment and the lame street media.
"It speaks volumes of the character of the American people, Why is it that we don't have our best or our brightest serving in the oval office and on their staff?"
And then you blame the media. Who does the media sell to Lou? What's your part in it? What are you personally willing to admit to? What are you doing to improve the world besides voting for Romney and blaming Democrats for everything that is wrong with the world?
Washington will be no better and no worse then the attitudes of those who send them there. I can't blame the media for my choice when it comes to voting.
Max, The people of course. The media has their own agenda, deny that. Blame it on the corporations. LOL. That's why they are going bankrupt. One major newspaper outlet that's doing well?
You like many here cannot blame the media for who you vote for as you search outside of the blather so frequent on the tube with their 15 seconds of spin. Like the trash passed as news.
The mass of American people do nothing but listen to the tube, on occasion read a paper. That's researching your candidate? You give the ordinary man to much credit.
This year for many it's anyone but Obama as he bears responsibility for a number of problems with the economy and the country. Presidential policy, executive orders speak to the agenda and the goals of the president. Much like 2008 when the mantra was, Hope and change and anyone but Bush and Mc Cain was Bush.
"The mass of American people do nothing but listen to the tube, on occasion read a paper. That's researching your candidate? You give the ordinary man to much credit."
I had to laugh, this has got to be the modern day equivalent of Thoreau's mass of men leading lives of quiet desperation. And I agree with you 100%. Giving the ordinary man too much credit may have finally become something that's true. These days, if you don't rely on anger to motivate you to vote, there is no principled choice you can make except for third party.
Why aren't the best and brightest in office? We don't allow them to be there.
OMG....you were so right@
ReplyDeletesmirking arrogant contemptuous Biden negated any positives he had. Oh I forgot lying. This attitude is why Dems haven't been bi-partisan.
ReplyDeleteOne commentator said on paper it was a tie, on radio Biden won, on tv Biden lost.
Biden was the epitome of the Supressives disdain for anyone but themselves. “Rude” is underexpressive.
ReplyDeleteBiden demonstrated the adage of dazzle if you can but bullshit if you can’t. I was purrty much lost and disconnected from Biden responses for the first hour or so.
And to say Bengahzi never asked for additional security is mindboggling based on current facts.
Ryan by 6/4
I thought they were both pretty good.
ReplyDeleteI agree on that. Both did exactly what they needed to do, and for at least a few hours, liberals can be happy that at someone stepped up and called bullshit. Biden was condescending and after the Obama disaster, someone needed to step up and get in Ryan's grill. To his credit, Ryan avoided THE single thing he needed to avoid, he avoided losing his cool and avoided looking like the pompous asshole who storms out of interviews or condescends to reporters. Republicans today are whining about Biden's condescension. That's telling.
DeleteTo me, I think both clearly laid out where their hearts lie and offered a contrast. If there is a low information voter out there hoping this would help them, 90% of what was discussed likely went over their heads. Will women care more that Ryan won the Libya discussion then what he said about abortion? Will independents actually consider that maybe Ryan and Romney are full shit of on their tax plan that they won't give any hard details about? Ryan made some really strong arguments, but did he make them on things that matter to an alleged swing voter? My gut says no.
Full of shit debated Romney. Agressive asshole debated Ryan.
DeleteYour posts channel both of them, and you're going down fast.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/2012_elections_electoral_college_map.html
Romney's claims in his debate were dissected quite a bit the day after, just like Paul Ryan's speech at the convention. Meh, I can handle being called an asshole TD, I'm not going to lose sleep over it. You are showing a good example of how the right doesn't subscribe to divisiveness.
DeleteAsshole that I may be TD, ask yourself a question, who do you want wiping yours someday and deciding whether or not you really deserve a pain shot, a jaded Republican who thinks everyone is trying to get a freebie, or a communist liberal like me?
The question everyone should ask, would you vote for Joe Biden for president? Is the the person we want representing out country should something happen to our president? Sometimes it's something as simple as that that will determine a vote.
DeleteI had to ask the same question when Dan Quale was standing up there.
Well, if you actually support a liberal idea of what a middle class should be, you might actually get more then lip service on that like we do from Obama. Biden is old school. The smirking and condescension was planned, but his passion when he speaks is not fake. I wish I could say the same every time I hear Obama talk.
DeleteThere are no undecided voters on this site Lou, we are all voting against something rather then for it.
Laughing Joe. The biggest buttinski I ever saw.
ReplyDeleteO,,,O,,,,O,,,,teacher,,,,O,,,,O,,,,,but,,,but,,,,,teacher,,,,
What a laughing stock to the rest of the world we are with a VP like laughing Joe.
1773-2009
Where was the discussion on immigration? Where was the discussion on education? And Why did the moderator let Joe Biden interrupt 90 times? Because she wanted him to. The moderator showed plenty of strength and control over the conversation, she could have put Joe in his place. Then she brought up the abortion issue which is a NON ISSUE this year. That's why Romney closed the gap with female voters. But we knew going in she was biased, it would just be a matter of how well she could disguise that bias. CNN said that there were THREE debaters.
ReplyDelete"Then she brought up the abortion issue which is a NON ISSUE this year."
DeleteThere you are dead wrong. When Ryan paused on that question, he sounded like Jerry Sandusky did when Costa's asked him if he found children sexually attractive. Abortion is no longer a Non Issue live because as Ryan point out last night, he has a very narrow view of when it should be legal to have an abortion. He also made it clear that a Romney/Ryan ticket is NOT pro choice. That is an unmistakable contrast.
It is decided LAW Max. Romney has already said that he has NO PLANS to remove abortion rights. His only plan is to remove abortion subsidies. No one who opposes abortion should be forced to subsidize it. Planned parenthood can operate on its own without the Government. Abortions won't go away. It is not the role of Government to provide abortion subsidies. Even if the Supreme Court one day reversed Rowe versus Wade that does not outlaw abortions. It then becomes a STATE ISSUE up to each state's voters on whether or not they want abortions in their state. This is all FEAR MONGERING.
DeleteIt's decided Law NOW live. In multiple states, Republican governs are creating a de facto outlaw on abortions. Currently, Roe v Wade is the law of the land. Locally, Republicans are writing so many restrictions that apply to ONLY abortion facilities that they are making it illegal despite the law of the land.
DeleteYou have, however, made my day. Your comments here and level of anger and use of the term fear mongering means you see it exactly the way I do and understand that his answer is going to turn off A LOT of women voters. That's known as a tell Live. Thanks for sharing that. LOL
Biden interrupted Ryan 90 times, the moderator interrupted Ryan 30 times. That's 120 times in his 40 minutes. Once every 20 seconds. How can you make a point if you are being interrupted every 20 seconds? You can't. I bet Ryan's real time allotment was around 20 minutes once you subtract out the interruptions.
ReplyDeleteOne final comment I think, the liberals who were already going to vote for Obama are ecstatic with Biden's performance. Romney supporters saw Biden's behavior as reflective of what has been wrong with the Obama administration from day one. Disrespectful, condescending, not willing to hear the other side. But those votes were already Romney's.
ReplyDeleteWhere Biden hurt the Dems in the debate are with undecideds. Those who are disillusioned with the divisive tone in DC.
"Romney supporters saw Biden's behavior as reflective of what has been wrong with the Obama administration from day one."
DeleteThe fact that Obama wakes up and breathes every day is an affront to Republicans. Ryan, when confronted about things he doesn't want to talk about, is just as much of a pompous asshole. Liberals today are happy because for once, OUR asshole was a bigger asshole than yours. This doesn't make the campaign smell any better of course.
Obama's style with Health Care and other legistlation is SCREW the opposition. Republican style has most always been to compromise and reach across the isle. There are lots of ways to eliminate loopholes. One proposal under consideration is limiting the maximum deduction the wealthy can take, such as 17,000 dollars. But why pidgeon hole yourself and be a bully like Obama? Just because Obama hasn't reached across the isle doesn't mean that Republicans won't.
Delete"Republican style has most always been to compromise and reach across the isle. " Livestrongest
DeleteElections have consequences - John McCain
"“The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president,” Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell
“Well, that is true,” McConnell replied. “That’s my single most important political goal, along with every active Republican in the country.”
Filibusters- you can draw your own conclusions here http://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/reference/cloture_motions/clotureCounts.htm it's not as straightforward, the sheer numbers of cloture motions does not tell the whole story. Still, once Bush became POTUS, they dropped and then doubled once the Republicans lost the senate.
Here's a sweet little ditty from Richard Mourdock "'I’m just against compromise, we need to stop it, it’s weak, it’s foolish, our views are irreconcilable, we have to force the American people to choose which one of us is right"
I get it Live, Democrats, when they held a majority, passed legislation you don't like and therefore it's a hot poker up your backside and an outrage and abuse of power. You don't want compromise, you want a majority back so that people you support can tell Democrats to F off.
The debate was run live here in Australia and I was able to watch it over lunch. What were my impressions?
ReplyDeleteFirstly both performed at the level one would expect from the "B"team. I thought Biden was more assured and factual and his opponent relied on the age old tactic of tear down the house before having a plan to rebuild the dwelling. The math was flaky on both sides and there was little detailed information from either as to the tactics to rein in the deficit. Biden made a good point re the 47% which will hound Romney until the election and Ryan was visibly uncomfortable during this exchange. To paraphrase Ryan “sometimes the words just come out wrong". This would be a bit of a problem for Romney in delicate foreign affairs talks! I seem to remember GWB had a similar problem although it did not prove to be insurmountable. It did however reduce Bush to a fool in the eyes of many of his allies.
This is a fascinating contest between the two major parties and if nothing else it reminds us Aussies that ours is not the only political system which smells like a dung heap.
Cheers from Aussie
cheers, this debate did nothing to garner Obama or Romney votes.
DeleteK,
DeleteThe simplest things escape us when listening to a scripted debate. A debate is an exchange of ideas and values. When a person is interrupted, talked down to is this a professional at work or a bully at play.
I expect to much from politicians as I hope to see professionalism, which is so often missing. For lack of a better term, Mr. Biden referred to Romney and Ryan which is sarcasm at it's best and should have been addressed as such. How can you respect the office or the man when this is what we put into office.
We put people like GWB and Clinton into office and now the team that's at the plate. It speaks volumes of the character of the American people. Why is it that we don't have our best or our brightest serving in the oval office and on their staff? The answer to me is it's the toxic environment and the lame street media.
"It speaks volumes of the character of the American people, Why is it that we don't have our best or our brightest serving in the oval office and on their staff?"
DeleteAnd then you blame the media. Who does the media sell to Lou? What's your part in it? What are you personally willing to admit to? What are you doing to improve the world besides voting for Romney and blaming Democrats for everything that is wrong with the world?
Washington will be no better and no worse then the attitudes of those who send them there. I can't blame the media for my choice when it comes to voting.
Max,
DeleteThe people of course. The media has their own agenda, deny that. Blame it on the corporations. LOL. That's why they are going bankrupt. One major newspaper outlet that's doing well?
You like many here cannot blame the media for who you vote for as you search outside of the blather so frequent on the tube with their 15 seconds of spin. Like the trash passed as news.
The mass of American people do nothing but listen to the tube, on occasion read a paper. That's researching your candidate? You give the ordinary man to much credit.
This year for many it's anyone but Obama as he bears responsibility for a number of problems with the economy and the country. Presidential policy, executive orders speak to the agenda and the goals of the president. Much like 2008 when the mantra was, Hope and change and anyone but Bush and Mc Cain was Bush.
"The mass of American people do nothing but listen to the tube, on occasion read a paper. That's researching your candidate? You give the ordinary man to much credit."
DeleteI had to laugh, this has got to be the modern day equivalent of Thoreau's mass of men leading lives of quiet desperation. And I agree with you 100%. Giving the ordinary man too much credit may have finally become something that's true. These days, if you don't rely on anger to motivate you to vote, there is no principled choice you can make except for third party.
Why aren't the best and brightest in office? We don't allow them to be there.