"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; …" Samuel Adams quoted in the Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer, August 20, 1789, "Propositions submitted to the Convention of this State"
Mick, We are adults, not adolescents who demonstrate from tent cities.
“When the people fear the government there is tyranny, when the government fears the people there is liberty.”
I shall not provide attribution to the above quote. If readers do not know, they do not deserve to be Americans. If anyone feels sufficiently aggrieved to contemplate rioting, remember the reasons for 1776 and 1789.America emerged as an idealistic Democratic Republic following a justified revolution. My question, where to from here if the Democracy you cherish fails the test?
Sorry to say but we are a Republic and any action preserving that or protecting that would be justified. The problem we are now facing is the illegal actions of trying to change our republic into a democracy.
Thank you Angie. "Government of the people, by the people, for the people". My favourite American quotation. But it surely does mean of the people by a government elected by those same people. I may be old and idealistic but you have two choices, if the majority vote to continue the present journey then "the People" have decided. Conversely if the opposite is the case then again the” People" have made their choice. To the above I would add, with deference and respect to my friends, (I have no other kind of relationship with Americans) that I could see some merit in civil disobedience if the Electoral College sought to change the wishes of the people.
That is just it, we are NOT a democracy. The US Constitution has clearly outlined the powers of three branches of government which are inclusive. The 10th Amendment in the Bill of Rights is the only one that is not inclusive of boundaries - a argument in favor of a small federal government. It is obvious that we have drifted so far away form our founding father's principles that something needs to be done. Either redefine America or bring her back to the republic she started form. Do not for a moment believe that the majority will automatically win for the majority of settlers were not in favor of breaking form England. You much think who is better organized and what is at stake - both will contribute greatly to the end result.
Democracy: a government of the masses. Authority derived thru mass meeting or any other form of direct expression. Results in Mobacracy. Attitude toward property is communist - negating property rights. Attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate, whether it be based upon deliberation or governed by passion. prejudice and impulse without restraint or regard to consequences. Results in demogogism, license, agitation, discontent, anarchy.
Republic: Authority is derived thru the election by the people of public officials best fitted to represent them. Attitude toward law is the administration of justice in accord with fixed principles and established evidence, with a strict regard to consequences. A greater number of citizens and extent of territory may be brought within its compass. Avoids the dangerous extreme of either tyranny or mobacracy. Results in statesmanship, liberty, reason, justice, contentment and progress. Is the standard form of government throughout the world.
Alexander Hamilton, Federalist Papers: "We are a Republican Government, Real liberty is never found in despotism or in the extremes of democracy...it has been observed that a pure democracy if it were practicable would be the most perfect government. Experience has proved that no position is more false than this. The ancient democracies in which the people themselves deliberated never possessed one good feature of government. Their very character was tyranny; their figure deformity."
Thomas Jefferson: "A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where 51% of the people may take away the rights of the other 49%."
Thomas Jefferson: "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
Benjamin Franklin (maybe): "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
William Martin. You make good points and you quote some of the greatest minds yet seen on your shores. At the time Hamilton, Jefferson and Franklin espoused their ideals the political climate was so different. Reason had time to develop and the gathering together of the minds that made the reasoning possible was a laborious process. Today we can exchange views in a matter of seconds and the reply, for good or ill, is with us in a few more seconds. Where is the time to consider our responses and to make sure we get a firm hand on the wheel before pushing the barrow down hill?
I too am glad to see Terri back where she belongs, among friends and adding reason and decency to our debates. Cheers to you all.
Have you sir, ever considered a name change? Samuel Adams of Boston perhaps? Would Hancock have found a place for a modern day buccaneer in his tea clipper? Would you have supported the other Adams (John) in his defence of the British soldiers accused of murder? Those were the interesting times and those were the times when agitation for its own sake was unnecessary. Agitation for the sake of the future nation was required and the many and varied reasons for same has long been lost in folk lore and historical interpretation. I cannot see value in repeating the past.
William.Snakes alive!! I was lucky enough to run across ths when looking at the life,times and speeches of Ben Franklin. Congratulations on its use but I doubt many Australians would see the connection. I believe the modern generation of so called musicians have messed about with the words to concoct a "tune".
Based on recent administration initiatives, I think the administration is more concerned of riots should Zero be reelected.
ReplyDeleteRiots may be coming before rather than after the election as tempers start to flair.
ReplyDeleteThe only people rioting would be tbe Tea Party.
ReplyDeleteSeriously? You've seen occupy Wall Streeters and their violence and filth. Contrast that to Tea Party demonstrations. No violence, no filth.
DeleteTake your rivisionist lying behind down to the medical marijuana dispensary where they are more likely to be influenced by your delusional statements.
You're such a nice person, your family must be very proud of you.
DeleteMick, note the phrase "peaceable citizens" below.
Delete"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; …"
Samuel Adams
quoted in the Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer, August 20, 1789, "Propositions submitted to the Convention of this State"
Mick, We are adults, not adolescents who demonstrate from tent cities.
1773-2009
“When the people fear the government there is tyranny, when the government fears the people there is liberty.”
ReplyDeleteI shall not provide attribution to the above quote. If readers do not know, they do not deserve to be Americans. If anyone feels sufficiently aggrieved to contemplate rioting, remember the reasons for 1776 and 1789.America emerged as an idealistic Democratic Republic following a justified revolution. My question, where to from here if the Democracy you cherish fails the test?
King, We are a republic. We replenish, we do not fail.
Delete1773-2009
Sorry to say but we are a Republic and any action preserving that or protecting that would be justified. The problem we are now facing is the illegal actions of trying to change our republic into a democracy.
ReplyDeleteThank you Angie.
Delete"Government of the people, by the people, for the people". My favourite American quotation. But it surely does mean of the people by a government elected by those same people.
I may be old and idealistic but you have two choices, if the majority vote to continue the present journey then "the People" have decided. Conversely if the opposite is the case then again the” People" have made their choice.
To the above I would add, with deference and respect to my friends, (I have no other kind of relationship with Americans) that I could see some merit in civil disobedience if the Electoral College sought to change the wishes of the people.
That is just it, we are NOT a democracy. The US Constitution has clearly outlined the powers of three branches of government which are inclusive. The 10th Amendment in the Bill of Rights is the only one that is not inclusive of boundaries - a argument in favor of a small federal government.
DeleteIt is obvious that we have drifted so far away form our founding father's principles that something needs to be done. Either redefine America or bring her back to the republic she started form. Do not for a moment believe that the majority will automatically win for the majority of settlers were not in favor of breaking form England. You much think who is better organized and what is at stake - both will contribute greatly to the end result.
http://takeourcountryback-snooper.blogspot.com/2008/12/democracy-v-republic-founding-fathers.html
DeleteDemocracy: a government of the masses. Authority derived thru mass meeting or any other form of direct expression. Results in Mobacracy. Attitude toward property is communist - negating property rights. Attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate, whether it be based upon deliberation or governed by passion. prejudice and impulse without restraint or regard to consequences. Results in demogogism, license, agitation, discontent, anarchy.
Republic: Authority is derived thru the election by the people of public officials best fitted to represent them. Attitude toward law is the administration of justice in accord with fixed principles and established evidence, with a strict regard to consequences. A greater number of citizens and extent of territory may be brought within its compass. Avoids the dangerous extreme of either tyranny or mobacracy. Results in statesmanship, liberty, reason, justice, contentment and progress. Is the standard form of government throughout the world.
Alexander Hamilton, Federalist Papers: "We are a Republican Government, Real liberty is never found in despotism or in the extremes of democracy...it has been observed that a pure democracy if it were practicable would be the most perfect government. Experience has proved that no position is more false than this. The ancient democracies in which the people themselves deliberated never possessed one good feature of government. Their very character was tyranny; their figure deformity."
Thomas Jefferson: "A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where 51% of the people may take away the rights of the other 49%."
Thomas Jefferson: "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
Benjamin Franklin (maybe): "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
1773-2009
William Martin.
DeleteYou make good points and you quote some of the greatest minds yet seen on your shores. At the time Hamilton, Jefferson and Franklin espoused their ideals the political climate was so different. Reason had time to develop and the gathering together of the minds that made the reasoning possible was a laborious process. Today we can exchange views in a matter of seconds and the reply, for good or ill, is with us in a few more seconds.
Where is the time to consider our responses and to make sure we get a firm hand on the wheel before pushing the barrow down hill?
I too am glad to see Terri back where she belongs, among friends and adding reason and decency to our debates. Cheers to you all.
Cheers from Aussie
William,
DeleteI never read that maybe quote from Ben Franklin. I don't care about the source; I love it! :-)
Jean
Old Benny was quite the ladies man ;) and his stomach had the pleasure of many a lamb I'm sure.
Delete1773-2009 We need more old Ben's.
People are going to riot if Romney is elected?
ReplyDeleteReally?
I must have come completely unplugged from the mainstream. I thought the rioting threats were centered on the possibility of Obama being re-elected.
Teri! So glad to see you back girl!
DeleteDI
1773-2009 Best Wishes!
Why head to the country??....become a agitator...live strong!..;-)
ReplyDeleteHave you sir, ever considered a name change? Samuel Adams of Boston perhaps? Would Hancock have found a place for a modern day buccaneer in his tea clipper? Would you have supported the other Adams (John) in his defence of the British soldiers accused of murder?
DeleteThose were the interesting times and those were the times when agitation for its own sake was unnecessary. Agitation for the sake of the future nation was required and the many and varied reasons for same has long been lost in folk lore and historical interpretation. I cannot see value in repeating the past.
Cheers from Aussie
Don't Tread On Me!
DeleteWilliam.Snakes alive!!
DeleteI was lucky enough to run across ths when looking at the life,times and speeches of Ben Franklin. Congratulations on its use but I doubt many Australians would see the connection. I believe the modern generation of so called musicians have messed about with the words to concoct a "tune".
Cheers from Aussie