Monday, January 11, 2016

All we are say-ing, is give war a chance

So, after looking at Mick's link on the fall in Democrats, I noticed this link  It was a pretty interesting read. In the article, the author admits in no uncertain that he and the US got it dead wrong in Iraq, from top to bottom. He further acknowledges spin off conflicts that have grown from this. Yet, he indicates that even though Obama seemed to have the right opinion about our self created disaster in Iraq, he nonetheless should see Syria as being different.

His premise is that Obama is perhaps "overlearning" the lessons of the Iraq war in that he sees taking military action there as just another middle east quagmire that Iraq was. The author doesn't really make any solid suggestions of his own, other than saying we should engage in all sorts of half measures without actually committing large scale troops, which I think we are already pretty much doing. Further, he doesn't state what he believes the end game should be, which is a question that I would like answered from anybody who has an opinion on this.

In the midst of it, he seems a bit sad that neocon thinking is currently viewed as the posterchild for dysfunction. He doesn't seem to say it's not deserved based on Iraq, but, he seems to kind of think we need to have a debate wherein the neocons accept their shame and failure in a such manner that they are allowed to get out of the penalty box and once again drive our policy toward another war. As I read stories like this, I can't help but think another bad conflict is coming, but this time it is going to be against bigger players. Outside of Israel, I feel like it's fair to say that there is not a single nation over there who is truly our ally. The Saudi's are barbaric butchers only a few steps removed ISIL in my opinion. They want out money for their oil and they our troops to die for their political gain. Iran is certainly not an ally and while I genuinely believe they do not want to go to war with us, I do believe they will fuck with us every chance they get to propagandize their power at home. Russia? Syria? Egypt? Turkey? None of those countries are really allied with us either.

What I believe is going to happen eventually is that we are going to be jerked into fighting some war wherein the biggest gain will come not to us, but to some country who pawns us into doing their dirty work. In this country, the best we get for debate is why Obama is or isn't a pussy. I keep seeing little benefit in a large scale US involvement in Syria. Anybody else got some thoughts on that?


  1. Max,
    As long as Syrians remain in Syria and Iraqi's remain in Iraq or Europe if they chose, no problem. Let them blow each other up as we are no longer the worlds policeman.

    As long as we are willing to accept the consequences of let's give peace a chance, no problem.

    1. I remain genuinely curious though about what people think is a real solution. Nobody is happy with Obama, but I don't know what the alternative is. If you had to guess, what do you a think a Republican would do there if elected in the next presidential race?

    2. At this point there is no solution including bombing them into oblivion, bringing them to the US or anything else proposed by this administration or the GOP.

      Perhaps it time for the world to be engaged especially the countries directly affected in the middle east. As Europe is finding out the refugees don;t care about their new countries only about themselves and their culture. The US is soon to learn all abut it.

    3. The Arab Spring was a result of the poverty, lack of jobs, and autocratic governments rife in the region. The current unrest is a direct result of those factors, which allow religious zealots to take advantage of that dissatisfaction to push their agendas. So. until those factors are corrected, the region will remain a powder keg. How do you do that? I don't have an answer, but more wars is not it.

    4. Your probably right, it was all about jobs and not the Muslin Brotherhood, radicals, extremists.

      Perhaps we should sign a free trade agreement with them and export middle class jobs for junk.

    5. Some people cannot govern themselves. The middle east with all it's tribal factions and religious strife seems to be one of those places. There is nothing great about a totalitarian regime except the several that existed in the middle east kept a lid on the tinderbox. But it was bound to happen especially in Iraq that these leaders would soon be gone. Hussein was 69 when we got him This year he would have been 79 so there is no guarantee that he would still be alive had we never meddled where we didn't belong. So we have to ask would ISIL now be in power whether we ever removed Saddam or had he just died. Who knows. What we do know is that we created a bunch of animosity with our little un-invited endeavor. This along with all the points Mick makes above is the primary recruiting tool used by these radical groups.
      I am not a lover of the Iranians but name one time that Shite Muslims have recruited people to go around the world or to our country to blow up people and things except in Israel. You can't because they haven't. The Shia seem to be the sane sect of the Muslim religion when compared with the Sunni. Their hatred of each other is another huge problem in the region. A problem we can't fix with all the bombs in the world. I am kinda with Lou on this as long as it doesn't affect anybody else or spread outside the region let 'em have at it.

    6. I am pretty much in that same category to let them have at it. Then again, I have a problem with saying we should stay out of it and then calling the POTUS a pussy shithead when he does just that. Rand Paul had a really good interview on MSNBC the other day and he rightly, IMO, made it clear that without his voice on the stage, the Republican debate become a pissing match where they all try to outdo each other in saying how bad ass they are. Ted Cruz last night said that the reason those sailors were detained is because Obama isn't feared. THAT is precisely the kind of ass kicker talk that will have us starting a massive scale ground invasion of the middle east. We can't have it both ways and I think a lot of people are trying to do exactly that.

      I'm not happy with everything Obama has done in the middle east, but, I can't say I feel like I have some clear picture of what should have been different and from what I have seen, neither do the people criticizing him.