So, here was a rant from Chris Mathews the other night that would not seem to line up completely with liberal thinking http://www.discussionist.com/1014203173 I found myself agreeing with Mathews to some degree on this, although here is another take from another link http://crooksandliars.com/2015/11/chris-matthews-goes-rails-again-over that didn't seem to like Mathews less that allegedly pure liberal tone. I won't go point by point on Mathews rant, but something he says near the end does resonate with me, namely that even if we do invade Syria and conquer ISIS, who are we going to hand the country over to? This is where I jump in and divert someone else's words for my own agenda.
I believe the military actions that so many are itching to engage in are the least of our problems. With or without allies, there are quite a few nations we can invade, provided said country does not have an ally like Russia backing them. Nobody was a friend of Saddam, that result was predictable. Not many were friends of the Taliban in Afghanistan, and that also followed a somewhat predictable course. Post action, of course, is where the problems begin. I certainly can't begin to believe I fully understand how Muslim's think. It would appear millions of Muslims do indeed want to have the freedom to practice their religion and enjoy personal freedoms in a manner that is not at all a threat to our country or our way of life. It would also appear, however, that something very different seems to happen in the middle east.
Looking at the refugees fleeing, it seems like they have had enough. Mathew's kind of intimates perhaps they are cowards. I'm kinda starting to wonder something different. Perhaps they realize a bigger picture wherein it doesn't matter if they fight or not because if they fight to depose ISIS while a brutal prick like Assad remains, the ultimate outcome remains the same. They will continue to live in abject, crushing poverty, while they are ripped off by some thug who is supported by a superpower such as the US or Russia. I'm kinda starting to think that if I lived there, maybe I would just opt to bug out too rather than stick around and ultimately just be a pawn of some super power who does not give a damn about me. THIS is what I think one of our biggest problems is. We can invade and conquer a lot of countries, and then have nothing to offer the people who live there other than truckloads of weapons to defend what is in the best interest of the United States.
It's called winning the hearts and minds....with guns. I believe that in every Islamic country there are those who want to join the real world and end the bullshit and poverty in their countries. We invade, we take, we move on leaving a contingent to win the hearts and minds of the population. And this is where we fail. How did we tame Germany and Japan? We didn't worry about hearts and minds we took we held and we didn't give it back until the leaders got their shit together and decided to do right by their people and the people of the world. we've tried the hearts and mind crap in Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq with pretty much the same results, failure. We can win any war we enter ... we have never learned how to win the peace. We leave vacuums that become filled with less then desirable people who continue the agitation. It's almost as if these countries dare us to come. They will get to kill a few Americans but they know we will soon tire of war and go home. All they need to do is vanish enough that we feel we won, we leave and the shit starts anew. Take and hold. Keep it until these people get their shit together and slowly give it back. Help the country build an economy. Let the people see the progress of democracy while we still have some degree of control of the reins. That method has proven results.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the basic sentiment in what you are saying that we are not able to maintain the peace afterward. I'm not sure Germany and Japan though are analogous examples. Vietnam is probably a better example. They didn't want the Chinese there, but neither did they want us there. Oil, I think, complicates this equation badly. We could give a damn really about how well wealth is spread in a particular country, so long as we get what we want. I don't think we are willing to take control of a country long enough and dominate with a fist strong enough that we essentially tell everyone we will kill all of you if you don't stop killing each other. In the context of so many individuals who feel that their Religion should also be their government, Democracy is a tough sell. It seems like right now, our interventions wind up looking like we are just taking sides and ultimately, we are doing someone's dirty work for them. Like you say, we like the feeling of kicking some ass and winning, but don't really want to stick around to help the vanquished get back on their feet. Further, it seems like those getting back on their feet don't want us or our values around anyway.
DeleteThey can have their religion and democracy also. What they have had is religion and dictatorship, usually a dictator of the opposite and minority sect. This again poses a different set of problems when the dictator topples. Revenge sets in for all the transgressions real or imagines of the old rulers.
DeleteMaybe they're all really republicans. they seem to like anarchy and chaos.
"Maybe they're all really republicans. they seem to like anarchy and chaos."
DeleteHad to chuckle at that. Undoubtedly that's itching for "Oh yeah, well Democrats...blah blah blah" type response. There's moderate Republicans I can see eye to eye with on a lot of things. The way right, militant types though? They remind me a lot of the extremists in ISIS.
The poverty problem is very real in those countries. I read an interview last week with a former ISIS member who frankly stated that he joined because of the good pay and seemed to think that was why many others did as well. Not only does ISIS pay their soldiers well but they give extra bonuses to those having wives and families. I don't think that would apply to those from Europe or America though, Also I read that the mastermind of the French attacks was not himself particularly religious.
ReplyDeleteprobably he wasn't Some people get off on control. he had 6 or 8 people who he convinced to do the dirty work they did. he got off on the control.
Delete"Donald Trump said Thursday that the alleged ringleader of last week’s terrorist attacks in Paris is no master strategist.
Delete“This so-called leader of ISIS – he’s not a mastermind, he’s a punk,” the GOP presidential front-runner said of Abdelhamid Abaaoud, who was killed in a police raid on Wednesday.
“They ought to call him what he is,” Trump said on Breitbart News’s “Breitbart News Daily” Sirius XM broadcast. "He’s garbage."
Somewhere, the remaining members of ISIS just felt an uncomfortable chill because Trump talked tough.
DeleteThere's 2 factions of Syrians fighting each other and ISIS. Iran is fighting ISIS. The Russians have jumped in. The Kurds are fighting. Europe is about to step up.
ReplyDeleteAside from some logistical support for some groups, I think the US should grab a bucket of nachos & a super Coke, sit this one out, and watch as our enemies kill each other. Maybe we jump in later and do some mop up work.
I get that we may have triggered this by removing Saddam and creating a vacuum, but this is really a thousand year old blood feud between Islamic factions at its core. We really don't need to step into this giant, steaming pile ...
"Now let me just say this: ISIS in Syria, (Syrian President Bashar el) Assad in Syria, Assad and ISIS are mortal enemies. We go in to fight ISIS. Why aren't we letting ISIS go and fight Assad and then we pick up the remnants?" Trump said in a "60 Minutes" interview that aired Sunday on CBS.
DeleteAlternatively, the GOP front-runner said the U.S. should let Russia take the lead in battling ISIS in Syria, where the Russian government is allied with the Assad regime.
"Russia wants to get rid of ISIS. We want to get rid of ISIS. Maybe let Russia do it. Let them get rid of ISIS. What the hell do we care?" Trump said.
CNN 9/27/15
The US has been standing by watching for a few years not.
DeleteDon't want to offend the Turks, Iraqi's, Syrians so we do not arm the Kurds to adequately fight ISIS.
Life is grand from across the seas. Until it isn't.