Sunday, February 14, 2016

Protesting against the system and ehrn using the susystem.

Nevada rancher Cliven D. Bundy asked for a court-appointed attorney as he made his first appearance Thursday in federal court following his arrest the night before at Portland International Airport.
Bundy, 69, his thinning salt-and-pepper hair slicked back, shuffled into the courtroom, chains at his ankles and wearing standard blue jail garb.
He pulled a pair of eyeglasses from a pocket of his jail shirt and spent nearly 30 minutes sitting beside an attorney, reviewing a 32-page federal complaint stemming from the 2014 standoff at his ranch northeast of Las Vegas.
Assistant federal public defender Ruben Iniguez was appointed to represent Bundy for the day but said his office couldn't continue to represent him because it represents others in the case.
U.S. Magistrate Judge Janice M. Stewart directed Bundy to present a financial affidavit to the court before a court-appointed attorney could be assigned.
"The court only appoints counsel for those who can't afford an attorney,'' Stewart said.


  1. That is pretty funny. "Gimmee a lawyer!"

    1. The entertainment continues.

      Wonder how you provide a financial statement from a jail cell???

    2. If America still existed he would be presumed innocent before being convicted by this kangaroo court.

      Tell them to go fuck themselves Cliven.

    3. Innocent?

      Faces federal charges related to the 2014 standoff at his ranch.

      He faces a conspiracy charge to interfere with a federal officer -- the same charge lodged against two of his sons, Ammon and Ryan, for their role in the Jan. 2 takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Burns. He also faces weapons charges.

    4. William, Cliven HAS been telling them to go fuck themselves from the alternate universe of his ranch. He will get his day in court. You're not much different from anyone else, you believe with 100% conviction he's done nothing wrong and near as I can tell, correct me if I"m wrong, you are not open to any possibility he has legitimately done something wrong that he should have to answer for.

      Tell you what, I promise I'll kick in ten bucks if they start a go fund me site for his defense. It doesn't matter if I think he's guilty or not, if the rest of us have to go to court when we ignore law enforcement, I want to see him face the same. And his kids for that matter.

    5. Yeah these ranchers were such a threat to our republic. Grazing cattle for generations on land that the feds don't want anyone treading on.

      Now the feds have wrapped the entire thing up in a pretty little bow supported by thousands of lawyer hours being paid for by the proles.

      Hillary steals hundreds of millions in broad daylight while our keystone cop justice department and
      BLM toadies lift rocks in the desert to find geriatric cowboys underneath.

      And you guys wonder why an authoritarian like Trump can gain such a following.

    6. Im no longer surprised about Trump.

    7. And I'm not at all surprised that younger white voters are considering comrade Sanders.

    8. Read an article on the authoritarian type.

      Trumpster: Mean-spirited, narrow-minded, intolerant, bullying, zealous, dogmatic, uncritical of their chosen, hypocritical, inconsistent, prone to panic easily, highly self-righteous, moralistic, strict disciplinarian, severely punitive; they also demand loyalty and return it, have little self-awareness.

      Seems to nail it pretty good.

      Interesting how so many believe the Trumpster when as he is a recent convert to his brand of conservatism.

    9. In honesty Lou, does that laundry list you put up there apply to nobody but Trump? One man's definition of mean spirited narrow mindedness is another mans definition of no bullshit man who knows how to stay focused. It's a matter of perspective. Last night, I was stunned that when Jeb! was preaching about W keeping us safe, Trump came right out and said, "The twin towers fell on your brothers watch". Nobody, I mean nobody right of center has had the sack to say something like that, let alone state the obvious thing that many feel, which is that W Bush lied to take us to war. People are finally coming to a general agreement that Iraq was a mistake, and Trump took that and went scorched earth. If he survives that outburst filled performance last night, the entirety of the Republican party is in trouble.

      For the record, I'm not saying I applaud Trump or what he said, it was just stunning to hear that on a Republican stage.

    10. which is that W Bush lied to take us to war.

      Seems the CIA was wrong so that constitutes a lie. Who would have thought.

      Key Judgments
      Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction Programs

      Iraq has continued its weapons of mass destruction (WMD) programs in defiance of UN resolutions and restrictions. Baghdad has chemical and biological weapons as well as missiles with ranges in excess of UN restrictions; if left unchecked, it probably will have a nuclear weapon during this decade.

      Baghdad hides large portions of Iraq's WMD efforts. Revelations after the Gulf war starkly demonstrate the extensive efforts undertaken by Iraq to deny information.

      Since inspections ended in 1998, Iraq has maintained its chemical weapons effort, energized its missile program, and invested more heavily in biological weapons; most analysts assess Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program.

      Iraq's growing ability to sell oil illicitly increases Baghdad's capabilities to finance WMD programs; annual earnings in cash and goods have more than quadrupled.
      Iraq largely has rebuilt missile and biological weapons facilities damaged during Operation Desert Fox and has expanded its chemical and biological infrastructure under the cover of civilian production.
      Baghdad has exceeded UN range limits of 150 km with its ballistic missiles and is working with unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), which allow for a more lethal means to deliver biological and, less likely, chemical warfare agents.

      Although Saddam probably does not yet have nuclear weapons or sufficient material to make any, he remains intent on acquiring them.

    11. A fair amount of reporting now has concluded they were intent in invading Iraq for quite some time. There were reports like the one you have here, and then weapons inspectors came up empty handed before the war. Regardless, what followed was a cavalcade of spin about how we would be welcomed and how democracy would flower. This also turned to be horribly wrong. So let's say it's all the CIA's fault, does that make it okay we invaded a country for reasons that ultimately proved false?

      I started another thread on this, but the harsh reality is that there aren't any pleasant answers when it comes to dealing with the middle east. We did what we did, and we are paying a price for it, ISIS. If we can't admit this, we are going to do the same thing over again somewhere else.

    12. his president like all president has to rely on the intelligence community for information. The information that Bush got from the CIA was the same information that was given t congress. Did he spin it? I wasn't there so cannot say nor can you however, the answer like every person in power, they spin it to their advantage.

      The information the CIA provided was obviously flawed today but then was accurate to the best of their knowledge. Was the faulty knowledge Bush's fault? So the left chastises Bush for a lie he didn't tell.

      And no there is nothing pleasant about the middle east as we remain embroiled in Afghanistan and re-engage in Iraq. Not to mention our adventures in Syria.

    13. Max as a side note, for the sake of argument say Bush lied about WMDs. That would mean that he and his administration went to war in 2003 for a reason they knew would be exposed the moment we got to Iraq and found no WMDs.
      They would have pursued this tactic realizing it would be revealed as a farce very soon, certainly by the next year, meaning the very year (2004) that Bush ran for re-election. It would have been a mission of political suicide.

      Does that make any sense to you???

    14. Nothing about Iraq made sense Lou. I believe that above all else, Bush was committed to invading Iraq, and they clung to whatever story they could. There is a flipside argument that while Saddam was a major thorn in the side of everyone, Saddam was also very much about preserving his turf. Why would he hang on to such weapons if it was going to mean he would lose his country. Again Lou, there is a lot here that does not add up. I personally believe the W was so intellectually lazy he simply didn't care whether it was truth or not. He was going into Iraq and FELT righteous and I think that's all that mattered to him.

      In the midst of the Iraq war, Bush attended the correspondents dinner and mocked the search for WMD Whether he knew there none, or whether he simply didn't give a fuck, I believe we were going no matter what. People can decide for themselves what that might mean.

    15. And in any case all the things Bush was/is, he did not lie about WMD's.

      He certainly was a victim as is Obama of poor choices for advisors. Double down on the poor choices, both listened to them and acted on the advise.

    16. As you said to me elsewhere, you don't know any more than I do whether he outright lied. I'm not sure I entirely buy victim, that word suggests powerlessness. In Iraq for Bush, and in Libya with Obama, I believe each did exactly what they wanted to. I don't believe either needed to be forced into the actions they ultimately took.

      Of many things that disturb me about Iraq, a central issue is that I believe we just dont' give a shit. We wanted to kick ass, and Saddam was hated by enough people that no one would pity his passing. Still, Lou, we invaded a nation, killed hundreds of thousands, including many who had no part in the military, over a false premise. The best we can seem to say is, "Oops, my bad." There is an attitude in this country that we can do whatever the fuck we want because we are America. We owe nobody explanations, and when we fuck up, we don't need to be accountable. You feel bitter and betrayed because we are 19 trillion and debt, but I don't think you could even contemplate what it would be like to have your family killed by a bomb dropped from a plane of a country you would have zero recourse against. We remain flippant as a nation over what we did in Iraq.

    17. Yes every president chooses.

      The difference between a president and a good president is the presidents choice of advisors they listen to.

      Clearly Bush was as wrong as Obama. Both did what they wanted to do.

      What we did in Iraq was far less heinous than what we did in Korea or Vietnam. Just fresher in the memory of people today who have no concept of history.

      In the entire Vietnam war, estimates of the total death toll range widely from 1.3 million, according to Guenter Lewy, to 3.9 million, according to R. J. Rummel. We were no more right then than today. The only difference is how people today lament over the people killed in Iraq yet ignore the millions killed in Vietnam.

      Why the outrage and hatred for Bush and not Johnson? Where's the outrage and hatred for Truman and the estimated people killed of 1.3 million people. Add insult to injury and add in the number of people killed t Hiroshima and Nagasaki and the people that died of related radioactive issues.

      Face it, American imperialism and nation building is beyond reprehensible yet it continues today. And we the voters continue to put the same idiots in office time and time again. Where's the anger against Obama had the people killed in his just war in Syria? The collateral damage for his drone strikes? His policies in Libya?

      No one seems to give a shit about the US and it's policies and the damage we do. Some pretend we are helping the world, protecting the innocent. And here we are today, demonizing Bush yet giving Obama a pass.

    18. The left has not given Obama a free pass on his drone strikes, or his actions in Libya. I made my feelings clear here that I didn't support any of that. Queen of Lesbian Liberalism herself, Rachel Maddow, also did not give Obama a free a pass. There's plenty of anger there, but arguably, the loudest opposers are not from right of center. I totally think Obama and HIllary both are war hawks but ironically, I think they will have their best support when Republicans control the senate and congress. Look at Syria, who's pushing him to arm rebels and topple Assad, people like McCain and Graham.

      But you bring up a great point about Johnson and IMO, much of we are debating is STILL tied to Vietnam. Many of the people in power today are of the generation that fought it, supported it of protested it, and the fights are still the same. America is great and God intended for us to be in a position where the world bows to us and where we do whatever we want. We are still operating under the same skewed sense of reality that got us into Vietnam. Objectively Lou, I think Obama gets much more of a pass for his war mongering from the right than he does the left. Liberals are not at all happy with Hillary Hawk's stance.

  2. I pay income tax. I presume you pay it as well. Why should Bundy not pay taxes? Because he claims that "doesn't believe in the Federal Government?

    1. You and I would pay a hell of a lot less if they paired down the BLM, EPA, and other bloated fed departments.

    2. you wouldn't pay less you would just be buying tanks and guns instead of helping the environment and less fortunate people

    3. Of course we could never cut spending just raise taxes, the lefts only solution. Everyone else pay more except the poor, the middle class and of course any liberal/progressive.

      How much extra did you send in last year Rick to support the unfortunate, whoever they are as the poorest in the US is wealthy compared to the poor of the world.

      No one in America goes hungry unless they chose to.

      p.s. the environment needs no help it has the jack boot of the EPA on the necks of Americans and business.

    4. Okay, nobody told me why Bundy shouldn't pay taxes.

    5. "The fight between Bundy and the Bureau of Land Management widened into a debate about states' rights and federal land-use policy. The dispute that ultimately triggered the roundup dates to 1993, when the bureau cited concern for the federally protected tortoise in the region. The bureau revoked Bundy's grazing rights after he stopped paying grazing fees and disregarded federal court orders to remove his animals."

      The BLM wanted to protect a turtle.


      what they really wanted (and still want) is power. Every bloated bureaucracy ultimately leads to this.

    6. "A turf war between a Nevada rancher and federal agents erupted into a violent scuffle this week as federal rangers shot one man with a stun gun and roughed up a woman during a clash with protesters."

      "Video of the dust-up showed angry protesters, including one claiming to be pregnant, shouting at stun gun-toting rangers, some of whom held German Shepherds straining at leashes."

      "Bundy's son, Ammon Bundy, was shocked twice until he bled, while his 57-year-old sister, Margaret Houston, said she was thrown to the ground by a BLM officer."

      ""These isolated actions that have jeopardized the safety of individuals have been responded to with appropriate law enforcement actions," the bureau said.""

      He argues he has historical rights to raise cattle on the public land surrounding his 160-acre farm.

      "But the BLM cancelled his grazing permit 20 years ago after he refused to obey new land-use regs installed to protect endangered desert tortoises.'

      The Bundy's were there since the 1880 and after 100 years the fucking turtles were still surviving. The fucking turtles were worth more to the fucking government than the well being of their citizens.

      I guess owning 84% of fucking Nevada wasn't enough for the fucking government. They had to take the area surrounding the Bundy's 160 acres also. For a fucking turtle.