What is the answer?
355 mass shootings this year in the United States
6 this week alone
What is the answer?
How do we protect our 2nd amendment rights yet keep weapons from those who are going to misuse them.
This is not a Republican Problem. This is not a Democrat Problem. This is an American Problem, without a simple answer. We lead the world in mass murders this year. Obviously arming up, the right to bear arms is not the total solution.
deals like San Bernardino, Newtown, Va Tech, countless others can happen any place, any time
What do we as a country have to do to protect 2nd amendment rights and protect our safety at the same time.
The obvious democratic answer is more regulation or prohibition on owning guns.
The obvious republican answer is more access to guns and looser rules on carrying them.
Both answers are wrong: so what is the right one.
Can we discuss this like adults please. It is of growing importance in our country.
So now that Obama, Pelosi, and Reid have f____ed up the country for seven years it's time to get together, have a kumbaya moment, and compromise with these bunch of losers.
ReplyDeleteI don't f___ing think so.
That was predictable.
Deleteyes it was that's why I asked for the adults to attend the discussion.
DeleteI don't think there is an easy answer Rick. I haven't seen a full explanation yet on what motivated this guy, although I saw the term radicalized. Not sure what radicalized means. The man and woman who executed two cops here in North Las Vegas were white people who had, at one time, been at Bundy's ranch. I'd say they were radicalized too. Guns, anger, mental illness, all seem to factor in and the constitution seems to guarantee a right to possessing all three.
ReplyDeleteThis is stream of consciousness here, but I feel like extremism, no matter what political leaning, is a big part of it. I don't believe far left and far right groups cancel each other out. Instead, I think they just add a collective bitterness that we are all paying for. Why do people drift towards the extremist mentality might be a good question to ask. Life is imperfect period, but the majority of people seem able to deal with that fact without killing a bunch of people to vent their dissatisfaction. I think that for a growing number of people, they feel, for whatever reason, that their life is not good enough and someone, other than themselves, is to blame for that-something being an ideology, a government program, lack of government program, and so on. Maybe its isolation that drives people into this, thinking that they are part of some larger cause when they attack what they feel isolated from. IDK, but I think we are now likely going to immerse ourselves in a new a deeper round of desire to blame Islam even though a lot of our shootings have nothing whatsoever to do with Islam.
And I will be the first to admit that the thought crossed my mind when I first heard the name. But it seems it could have been just as easily workplace violence when we look at the preliminary facts of the case. We shall know in a few days.
DeleteI don't know if isolation factors into the equation but in todays world it is quite easy to for one to self isolate and dwell on their problems. I think their maybe a lot of copy cat stuff going on in that someone sees a mass murderer elevated to their 15 minutes of fame and follows suit and so on and so on I don't know.
I think extremism is a big part of it. Narcissism could be another huge factor. The six traits of narcissistic behavior are needing to be the center of attention, Lack of empathy, weak sense of self so they act out for attention, envy causing a need for oneupmanship, sense of entitlement up to criminal activity with no remorse. Narcissistic personality disorder is one of our newer Psychiatric personality disorders.
The facts about American gun violence
ReplyDeleteSince 1982 there have been 62 major planned mass murders in America in 31 different states
36 have occurred since 2006
Most of the gunmen obtained their firearms legally.
143 weapons were used or possessed by the shooters. Dozens were semi automatic with high capacity magazines
12 mass shootings were at schools
20 were at workplaces
30 were in public places such as malls, restaurants and government institutions
44 of the shooters were white males averaging 35 years of age.
The youngest was 11 (Jonesboro Ark 1998).
49 of the killers obtained their weapons legally
12 did not
1 it is unknown
Shooter weapons
71 semi automatic handguns
28 rifles
23 revolvers
21 shotguns
42 carried and used high capacity magazines
20 had assault rifles
48 of the shooters used weapons that would be outlawed by the assault weapons ban of 2013.
Economically we spend more on gun violence and it's affects then we spend on obesity, nearly as much as we spend on Medicaid.
Medicaid costs 251 billion a year the affects of gun violence 229 billion.
"In the eight years since 2006, the US has recorded 30 fishing deaths, 16 camping deaths and 14 boating deaths from lightning strikes. Of the sports activities, football saw the highest number of deaths with 12, compared with golf's eight fatalities. Twelve people were killed working in gardens and 14 people died working on a farm or ranch."
DeleteEach year in the US between 30 and 60 people die from lightning strikes.
DeleteAnd death from smoking is STILL the number one preventable cause of death in America.
DeleteFirst you have to get the government off the tobacco tax teat. Good Luck.
DeleteHere's a thought, maybe all the tea bags who smoke could stop smoking and "starve the beast". Whilst you may bemoan the sin tax on cigarettes, there is no denying that smokers cost the rest of us an enormous amount of money in terms of lost days at work and hospitalizations. High cigarette taxes recoup some of that. But, as usual, I am interested in the health of people, you are interested in some mindless talking point.
DeleteI've never smoked and would never employ a smoker. But I've made a load of money on tobacco stocks. It's still a free country. People can still ingest what they will. Knock yourself out max.
DeleteNon partisan bull shit as you continue with the agenda of the left. Why not talk about the terrorists in California and their pipe bombs, the IED construction in their basement.
ReplyDeleteWhere's the call for regulation of pipes? Regulation of the materials necessary to build IED? As long as your gun control ranting continues, the mentally ill receives ZERO attention and help. Terrorists will build pipe bombs, IED's for use in America. Will it be Bush's fault?
What will you do when the real terror begins in America? California is a prelude to what is coming. Do we need stronger regulation of firearms? All collectors of old firearms should turn in their guns. All hunters should turn in their weapons. Do we need AR15'd AK47's? No they should be banned.
Well Rick, how do you get the gangs to turn in their AK47's and AR15's? The cartel members residing in the US? Hand guns, the midnight specials should be destroyed as they have only 1 purpose. How do you get the gangs to turn in their handguns? The cartel members residing in the US, will they turn in their hand guns?
Having said that Rick, the agenda should be how to eliminate the terrorists in America, help the mentally challenged, yet you say nothing opting for a band aid on the arterial wound and ignore the coming problems of terrorism in the US.
No one suggested anything like you have written. As usual you read and comprehend only what you choose to. Let's start again lou. how do we protect our 2nd amendment rights AND protect our citizens at the same time. How do we keep guns out of the hands of those who would misuse them. God Lou I get tired of babying you along. Read my words as they are not what you want them to be. Read again as I write about mental issues Lou. Any adults out there who wish to comment?
DeleteAs an honest question Lou, and I honestly don't know the answer to this, but are terrorists motivated by Religion really any different from the people who kill for some other reason. I'd say that white idiot who shot up the church was radicalized too and his action was every bit a terrorist act. Near as I can tell, the people who kill on a large scale are seeking to make people feel unsafe. They want to disrupt daily life and they want as many people as possible to be forced to hear a message the killer otherwise believes the victims are refusing to hear. Sorta like when William keeps posting a bajillion Clinton/Benghazi stories.
DeleteI spent a fair amount of time volunteering in a locked children's psych unit, and I had to do several rotations through locked psych units in nursing school. If I had to bet money, I would say that most of the adults I saw would probably not be the ones pulling this kind of thing off. I think it blurs the lines a little here to think about what really is mental illness. I kind of think a lot of these shooters have an altered view of reality, yet they are more than capable of planning and executing a shooting spree. I think a lot of them are very narcissistic and sadly, that is one trait that is very over represented in our culture. I'd say that's a lot more of a problem than access to guns.
You might be right that this is just the start, but here is what I worry about. Perhaps this is leftist thinking, but if we choose to make Islam the scapegoat, I think it's a bit of a cop out when we have had multiple mass shootings committed by Americans with no links to Islam whatsoever. It will give us an out to not look int he mirror and ask why so many people are so obsessed with whatever they are obsessed about that they feel people need to die for ignoring them. The motivation of an Islamist type radical may be a slightly different from an anglo American, but the end result is the same.
The honest question is our reality.
DeleteThe person that killed the police officer and 2 other people in Colorado Springs at a planned parenhood clinic wasn't seeking to be heard, he is plain crazy. James Holmes, Aurora theater killer, same thing. The 2 kids that killed the kids at Columbine HS, were the same. Perhaps it's time we address mental health a bit more seriously.
As to a church shooting, the recent shootings in California, people motivated by hate will find a way to kill. We are beyond lucky that the pipe bombs left behind did not explode as the count of dead and injured would have been much higher.
The reality of our lives is what it is. Ban assault rifles, no problem. Ban handguns, no problem Where do you stop in banning to prevent the shootings? How do you prevent the bombers? The materials are readily available.
We have had a glimpse of what's coming to the USA. The more people from the middle east you allow into the country the higher the odds we will have serious issues sooner than later.
The question remains, if you ban assault rifles, handguns, the honest citizens will turn them in reluctantly. Will the criminal elements?
Well, I have to admit, banning weapons is really not in my consideration. I agree on the mental health, but I nonetheless remain stumped at how. The PP shooter and the kid who shot up the theater do seem crazy, but they were still with it enough to plan something, purchase the needed materials, and carry it out. I'm not sure there is a specific mental health intervention, further, I can't help but feel to some degree these acts are expressions of what is ingrained in our culture. As an example, I think kids to tend just blurt out shit they see at home in a matter of fact way and often to the embarrassment of their parents who seem to present one image to world while being something completely different at home. While these people might be crazy from our perspective, I think it's more like they just don't have a filter that the rest of us have that stops us from doing stuff like this even though we frequently get enraged about something.
DeleteA lot of these shooters, to me, seem to be people that aren't really that connected to a bigger world. maybe the mental health piece is learning to accept and make room for oddballs? I don't know. I'm not sure barring the door from the middle east is going to help us, we seem to have enough problems already on this front.
I'm not sure barring the door from the middle east is going to help us,
DeleteIf we allow in 10K people and 1% turn out to be terrorists and kill Americans then what do you say? Sorry Americans they need our help ans shit happens?
Better to establish safe places for them in there own country at the same cost and not put American citizens at risk. It will be an interesting discussion when it happens and it will happen. Just a matter of time as it did in Paris.
Pay real close attention Rick.
DeleteCertain firearms are created for a specific purpose.
AR15, AR16, AK47 etc. are made for 1 purpose only, killing people. Banning them makes perfect sense.
Hand guns are made for a specific purpose, killing people.
Banning them or restricting the sale or ownership of them makes perfect sense.
The number of pistols, revolvers manufactured in the U.S. in 2013, the latest full year available.
4,441,726 pistols
725,282 revolvers.
Estimated number of hand guns in the US:
270-310 million
Do we really need almost 1 hand gun per person available in the US???
The question remains ban the guns how do you get them out of the hands of the criminal elements in the US.
And no Rick you did not talk a moment about mental health and the terrorists in the US and how to address them which is a core issue.
This is kind of what I was getting at up above. we have had over 300 incidents where at least 4 people were shot. How many have been linked to Islamist extremism? I think that for political gain, there will be several candidates who make enormous hay with rhetoric about shutting the door to keep them out in order to keep us safe. Will this address the real problem? Not to my thinking, but it will address a problem that statistically is not a major threat, but emotionally pegs us into overdrive. The flip side of your argument is that it's better to let 9,900 people suffer because we will FEEL safer but blocking them. There is no guarantee we will be safer, and no proof 100 refugees will come here and kill people.
DeleteIt now seems the radicalization efforts have already infiltrated us. We can keep people out, but can't keep ideas out. I can't fully describe what the motivation is, but deep down I believe there is SOMETHING similar in the hearts of the PP shooter, the theater shooter and this guy in California and people who go off to fight in Jihads. The death cultists in the middle east found something exploitable, which is what scammers always do. They look for those who have no connection to join their cause. They get their funding by selling something that people with money want to hear. This is what we are going to have to deal with. Israel does not spare an ounce of reprisal when it comes to dealing with the Palestinians. It hasn't stopped them from having to deal with terrorist attacks. Your last para there sounds like nation building. I think the people leaving there are tired of the bullshit and want to start a new life. If we leave them there, they will just eventually be forced to join some warring faction that really isn't any different than another with the exception of who they hate. It might be more in our interest to take int he ones who want to come here and assimilate.
In two recent speeches your Pres has cited the Australian gun laws as legislation which has proven workable. This must mean something even as a start point for a debate. Of course, as Louman has previously pointed out, your borders are vulnerable, particularly along the Mexico US line. To enforce our type of laws, you would need to plug the leaks. What is interesting to me is that Obama won the election but he has failed to mount a case to properly resolve the guns issue. This is perhaps due to the influence of the NRA and the "too big to fail" attitude.
DeleteI feel it is a waste of time to simply argue about psychological profiles as to what constitutes a mass shooter. Perhaps it would be better to acknowledge that such beings exist within your society or even worse, the availability of guns makes it easier for such personalities to develop.
Rick wants to preserve the second and at the same time protect the citizens of the nation. I must question the logic of this proposition. It is the second which allows the proliferation of weapons..
The American psyche is certainly a problem. Topical explanations here are the veneration of the second and just today, I heard of the decision to allow females into the most at risk areas in the Army. Do any of you reading this agree with the decision? If it were your daughter or wife who was involved would you agree?.
There is a relationship between the second and the female combat role; problem is that most Americans cannot see it. In common with most who read your constitutional history, I can see and agree with the reason for the Second., At the time it was ratified the Brits had not long been banished following a period of colonization no better and no worse than many other colonies.
As I have often read, from people generally deficient of the true reason for the Bill of Rights,” it is a plank of our constitution designed to protect us from tyrants, both from within and without.” This to my mind is now total bollocks.The second has served its purpose, in the same way that there is no longer a need for a man with a red flag to walk in front of an automobile there is no practical requirement for the second.
So, to the problem set by Rick. I think rick the two aims are mutually exclusive. You may not control guns with the second on the books. The second can in no way cure the problem. Why not look at the second and consider the wording, the historical time and the requirement for the inclusion of the second.
Can you amend the constitution to expunge the second? Probably not but it should not be beyond the scope of government, with the aid of the people, to marginalize the NRA so that a plebiscite or a referendum may get up and alleviate the problem.
I have been rather engaged in personal medical matters for the past several weeks so this post is probably a bit below par. Sorry about that but I do feel the effort was justified.
Cheers from Aussie.
I saw that thing yesterday about allowing women into full combat roles and I guess my biggest thought was that it was inevitable. I wouldn't want my wife or children in combat and i would much rather go myself than see them go. I imagine that if they are not fit for the role, they will not be allowed in. The reality is that we already have women who have been in combat and who have died in combat. I don't think this says anything positive about our society.
DeleteYour second and fourth para seem to hit close to my feelings. I think the country as a whole spends enormous effort arguing about things that are somewhat beside the point. At least they are beside the point when we consider that there are realistic limits to what can be accomplished given the effort we are willing to expend. Your views regarding our second amendment are very strong and I don't think I particularly disagree with the premise that easy access to such enormous firepower is a problem all by itself let alone in addition to being an accelerant for many already existing social problems. That said, i am also a believer in putting in effort where it will achieve the most good. I agree wholeheartedly that we should be able to limit the power of the NRA to a point where it's power is proportionate to the number of it's members. This is a relatively small group who has a power that is not in proportion to it's size.
Be that as it may, I can't help but believe that spending the effort needed to limit NRA power would pay the dividend so many believe it will. People are infuriated that they cannot pass legislation with majority support due to this lobby, and that bugs me too. Still, the underlying social dysfunction giving rise to the violence would not be changed. I don't like the idea of simply learning to tolerate it, but I believe we'd all do a lot more to fix the problem be changing how we act toward each other.
Oh lou but I did you better look again at my first post. I laid out exactly the mental illness known as narcissistic personality disorder. Go on back and reread it and see if that doesn't make some sense as to what might motivate these shhoters.
DeleteNow our resident charlatans would not only like to gut our 2nd they'd like to prevent our freedom of association. Falling right in line with the so called universities who attack free speech. States rights went out the window with Lincoln. Congress seeds it's power of the purse to the executive. The lack of diversity on the judicial bench leads to law being created not judged.
DeleteAnd you Bozo's wonder why a guy like Trump holds a commanding lead.
At present, Trump holds a commanding lead amongst Republicans, that is a distinction worth noting. His climb back to the top of the hill seems to owe much to the attacks in Paris and now California. What that says to me is that a large section of the Republican base wants a Daddy who will tell them everything will be okay because he will kill or deport everyone who scares them.
DeletePossibly max. I know a lot of women who are scared shi-less about terrorism. Alot of folks around here lost loved ones in 9/11. Look at it anyway you want, I still favor Carson and Cruz, but women want security. That trumps voting for another fad progressive experimenter.
DeleteWell, on the look at it how you want front, life experience has taught me that those that talk the most the shit are frequently the most insecure. They want to kick everyone's ass first because they are convinced they will be a victim if they don't. Id venture to guess there are just as many men who want that daddy figure who will go out and kick ass in their name.
DeleteNo argument there.
Delete