I have tried to avoid getting sucked into the Ray Rice debate, but it seems that the national news thinks this is a very important story. I have watched the video of the fight in the elevator and heard a few opinions. What I saw was two people who didn't know where to draw the line. Hopefully, they were able to find that place that night. It is hard to imagine wanting to haul the limp body of your loved one around a hotel full of people more than once. It is hard to imagine getting any joy out of inflicting that kind of harm to someone who can't ever defend herself from your brand of physical damage. I hate that this happens to more people than just celebrities whose exploits can start a national debate.
What I don't understand is how this incident can cause a man to lose his career. He wasn't a judge, preacher, or any other professional that we expect to have a high moral character. Heck, we even will forgive horny preachers who will deflower their young and beautiful female parishioners. Why does this one lovers quarrel automatically cause the man to lose his job, the commissioner to face firing, and the coach and owner of the team to be put in the hot seat?
Ray had trained to be a football player. He probably only had 2 or 3 years to get the payoff for all of his hard work. The girl he punched out made the decision to become his wife. Now both of them will face financial hardship as Ray probably doesn't qualify for any other multi-million dollar jobs out there. I can see sending them both to couples therapy, her to self esteem training and him to anger management training. Do that and monitor the situation closely, but don't make it where they can't make a living.
I'm sorry, nobody's above an ass-whoopin'.
ReplyDeleteThe only crime that Ray Rice committed was getting caught on camera. What if the last thing she said before he jacked her was, "I just had a threesome with your brothers."
This guy had no history of domestic violence nor did he have a criminal record.
Yes, I'm a woman and I said it ...
The NFL is inconsistent at best and fucktarded at worst.
LOL! Now I want to hear the audio!
Deletepfunky.
DeleteOn another topic ( USA as part of the UK) I mentioned the ability of the Americans to macerate the English tongue). Reading your post I find it to be hilarious, I do not however understand more than about three words! I rest my case.
Cheers from Aussie
King. When I first started spending time in the UK I watched a documentary about this subject of language. It seems that because of the isolation that America had from its colonial mother and the rest of the world, American English stayed true to, if you will, old English, than did the evolving interaction between England and her active colonies.. I thought it was a plausible concept..
DeleteIt's all about being politically correct.
DeleteI almost hate to admit it but I tend to agree with pfunky. No one knows what preceded the incident and she didn't exactly look like a wallflower when she went after him inside and outside the elevator. She comes after him, he swats her like a fly, and her head hits the rail. Dragging her caveman style from the cab was a bit obtuse but hey if no one comes along he probably carry's her to bed and they make a little Ray Ray later on.
ReplyDeleteDamn cameras and forty million dollar NFL contracts have a way of making things a bit sticky but it's not like Ray killed a few dogs or shot off his toe in a crowded nightclub or something.
The irony for me as a Jersey boy is that here we have a shiny representative of Uber liberal Rutgers University tied up in knots over a domestic abuse charge. I guess we didn't find a way to attend that Woman's studies 101 remedial summer session now did we Ray?
I would however be preparing for Mr. and Mrs. Rice' lawsuit if I was the fabricator of the railing for the elevator company. But then again it is Jersey and the railing may have had a sticker stating "Be careful not to strike your head on the railing after you receive a left hook from and NFL running back."
Honestly, I hope he gets another chance. I hope Tim Tebow gets another chance also. But that's just me.
"In his weekly Saturday morning address, President Obama is expected to talk about the Federal government’s response to the elevator tragedy. Sources on Capitol Hill have hinted that the President is planning to take executive action by assigning a highly trained guard to travel in elevators nationwide on a random basis, much the same way that Air Marshals have increased their presence in airplanes as more and more attempted attacks take place. There is a possibility that the White House will utilize Homeland Security Border Patrol agents not currently engaged in babysitting the hundreds of thousands of undocumented children who crossed the border this year for their new ‘elevator watch.’
Delete“It’s like 1972 all over again,” Semples said, referring to the release year for the motion picture The Godfather, which showed fictional mobster Victor Stracci being gunned down in an elevator. “Ridership plummeted after that damn movie came out, especially in parts of the country with large Italian-American populations. Took years for the industry to rebound, just like the big hit the bathroom shower industry took in 1960 after Janet Leigh was hacked to death in a shower at the Bates Motel. I just hope this Ray Rice incident won’t cause the same slump, because in this economy that could mean a loss of jobs.”"
http://empirenews.net/otis-brands-elevator-company-knocks-out-ray-rice-endorsement-deal/
LOL - Mrs. Rice, bringing home the bacon from the elevator company...
DeleteNobody's saying that Ray Rice can't make a living, but his boss who owns the team had said you can't make millions playing for me. As a licensed RN, I am at risk of losing my lively hood if I do something like get arrested and convicted of something. If I beat my wife and got convicted for assault, I very well could lose my license. The NFL is a multi billion dollar operation and perception matters. If the NFL feels like this is bad publicity for them, they have every right to throw him out under their collective bargaining agreement. I feel no pity for a guy who feels like whipping someone's ass, especially his partner's ass, is a legitimate solution.
ReplyDeleteThough I guess my role around here is to be the uber liberal, my feelings on this matter are significantly shaped by the fact that after my folks divorced, I lived with my Mom and my two older sisters and watched them endure a lot of shit from real assholes, including my dad when he was in his active drinking phase. Surely, there are some real combative women in the world who love to fight and argue just as there are doormats who start to become exasperating to deal with because they do nothing but make excuses for the assholes who beat them. Neither, in my opinion, excuses the behavior of the angry assholes who beat them. I dated a woman once who loved to argue, who constantly pushed my buttons and tended to keep picking until I exploded and yelled at her. I chose to break up with her rather than let our screwed up relationship proceed to that point.
I do have to agree though that the NFL is very inconsistent in its standards. Admittedly, I've never been a big fan of the NFL or the NBA for that matter because I feel that both tolerate a lot of thuggish behavior. However, when Semyon Varlomov of the Colorado Avalanche was accused of beating his girlfriend last year, I was just as disgusted, actually, even more so in his case. I found a link for the country prosecutor here in Las Vegas http://www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/domviol/facts.htm I don't really give a shit if people dismiss what I say because they don't like the messenger, but the facts of what violence against women looks like should be sobering.
Max,
DeleteThanks for the well reasoned reply, as always. I didn't think about the contractual terms through the union. They'd better be willing to take these extreme measures with all of the players who do this in the future.
I had a girlfriend once that loved to fight. It drove me crazy that we had to spend most of a Friday evening arguing about stupid stuff. The payoff was that she could put on a great show in the sack. She claimed to be multi-orgasmic and I bet if squirting was a big thing back then, she would have turned on the waterworks too. I never felt like punching her, but I had to get out of the constant discord.
The problem isn't the ass whoopin" it's the way it's been handled. Ray Rice will be back. Roger Goodell may be looking at the permanent pink slip.
DeleteI tend to agree Rick, not that it's like he's ever gonna be poor. Rice, like animal torturer Vick will be back because when it comes down to it, NFL owners want to win and they will cooly calculate precisely when enough heat has died down to move on. Rice will start going to some bible class, with his wife at his side and probably go to couples counseling together and put on a good show of it. Admittedly, I'm not going to watch either way, but I'll admit I tend to enjoy the temporary slap these jaggoffs get even if it isn't going to last.
DeletePfunky is absolutely right and hearing it from a woman is refreshing. Is domestic violence a serious subject and one that should receive a lot of honest conversation?... you bet , but not all domestic disputes are created equal nor are the temperaments and situations of the people involved. Debate on this subject, like the conversations about rape, people who end up on a sex offender list and police shootings is not black and white and allowing the politically correct brigade to make it so solves nothing.
DeleteI too had a father who used alcohol as a vehicle to channel his anger but I had a mother how gave as good as she got. I give him credit for the restraint he showed when she was on her tip toes, in his face, giving him a telling off with her finger up his nostril. It never ceases to amaze me when you see two grown men, drunk, angry and ready to kill each other and a 5’5” woman steps in between them as if she were invincible. This kind of cocksure attitude has cost more than a few women black eyes or worse.
Political correctness likes to assign instant blame. Like the guy on a sex offenders list that is beaten senseless because some child in the neighbourhood had been molested only to find that his only crime was, because of circumstance, that, as an 18 year old boy, he shared the same classroom with a 16 year old girl and they became friends.
As I started my junior year in high school, my father was retiring from the Air Force. We traveled from Illinois to Texas to start the school year. I met a girl from another school at a football game and went out a couple of times. One day my father got a call from hers... they needed to discuss if I was going to ‘Do the right thing’ with regards to her pregnancy. This three month pregnant girl did not know that I had moved from Illinois less than two months previous.
When we can start believing that victims lie, that things aren’t always what race baiters and feminists what us to stereotypically believe, that the code of silence is real and that government lies, then we just might be able to take an objective look at these problems.
What I find truly jaw dropping however is the justification you use for his dismissal from work. You have made the case that all people who champion the right of free association make every day. A person or group invests its money, creates a business model that will attract a certain clientele and should be able to hire and fire employees who deviate from that model. If bad publicity is your criteria then any business should be able to live or die based on its choices of hiring criteria, wage, product and customer it chooses to serve because as you say, they had a mutually agreed contract. Even though race baiters are quick to fling the race card when people question the provisions of the civil rights act that somehow say that it is unconstitutional for government to force people apart but it is perfectly alright for government to force people together, the right of free association is in fact a legitimate claim to liberty in our constitutional republic.
Scott surprisingly "the Race card" hasn't been played in this case, and what does this have to do with the government. This is a private entity making it's own decisions, right or wrong. This is the free market at work just as you like it. Has it been handled badly? yes it has. And who will ultimately pay the highest price? The CEO of the entity. Who might be the next commish?
DeleteRick, I was going to try to respond but after rereading my comments, I would have to say that they are understandable to even the least intuitive of readers but... you need the practice... review the rules of comprehension and reread...
DeleteStephen Foster?(still amazed that you would post that dunderheads 'work?'.... you hang out with some warped ones if his is one of your go-to's for political enlightenment
"In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4]"
DeleteYes TS, even the least intuitive among us can understand your post.
Here's an observation I'm sure you can disagree with. Something I've noticed that seems to piss off the libertarian types to no end is to watch someone suffer a consequence that carries a heavier penalty in the court of public opinion than in a court of law. In this case, the argument seems to be that unless people stop going to the stadium because they find what Rice did to be unacceptable, then we should all just shut the fuck up because it's none of our business. Whether it's the race card in the case of a guy like Don Imus, or something else, the idea that someone can be fired simply for being offensive at work or in public seems to scream that martial law and correctness is just around the corner.
The reality, TS, is that shit like this happens all across America everyday. In multiple states it is legal to be fired simply for being gay. People get fired for being raging alcoholics or drug addicts or they get fired simply because their boss or others they work with just don't like them. As a hockey fan, I can readily admit that the fan base i belong too contains gobs of people that I would consider to be mistakes of the gene pool. Very little could be done to offend them and they would go to games regardless and I'm sure it's the same for NFL fans. Nonetheless, image matters. The league doesn't want to have to explain why it's players beat their wives and they certainly don't want to discuss whether playing such a violent sport conributes to it.
Sorry you have to suffer the outrage of watching someone you don't remotely care about lose his multi million dollar job for beating his wife.
I am flabbergasted Max... Call you out for shutting down discussion by calling people names and you come up with a new one... typical. At first I thought you were calling out Rick because he is good at one liner BS but you wouldn’t ‘dis’ his ally. As I have said before, if people on this forum find me to be an annoyance, I will cease to post here as I have good dialog elsewhere with people who are willing to acknowledge poorly considered positions when logical information is presented to them. I am sorry if you get your feathers ruffled... Its American Politics not the Friday Afternoon Social Club.
DeleteInterestingly, I was agreeing with you Max. Free association and opinion should have exclusive input into the social behaviours and values in this country. I don’t have a problem with that and contrary to your comment, libertarians don’t want the social direction of this country to be dictated by laws shoved down their throats by squeaky wheel social misfits who band together using taxpayer money to buy the votes necessary to escape social scrutiny. Libertarians dislike the double standard most liberals and many ‘conservatives’ used to hide behind and pompous way they do it. Crying foul when someone shows dislike for their behaviour and immediately lawyer up but have no problem attacking people who live well within the constitution that governs the laws of this country. Of course it is a constitution that presents the largest hurdle for progressives to overcome and is their fore, itself demonized. If you think business should have the right to hire people according to its values and business model.... Stand Up! If you think that giving accepting an offer for employment is a mutual contract... Stand Up! If you think that ‘business image’ is a reasonable reason to fire an employee for behaviour outside of work that reflects badly on the business... Stand Up! But don’t wave your arms only when the particular issue suits you.
Problem here Max is that this is old news.... where was the outrage in February when this story was reported? I read about it.... I had already shook my head over the behaviour some time ago but certainly the video ‘obtained’ by the highly respected news organization TMZ and released to cause the greatest shit stirring possible is much more mobilizing for a group of people who get their news from YouTube. Levin, himself said that they have been working to exploit this story for the last seven months but refused to say how he obtained the elevator video. The interesting thing here about your indigence. They were both arrested and offered counseling, as a first time offender(s) verses prosecution. Interesting that the left is so up in arms at the criminal justice system that incarcerates so many people, ruining their lives when rehab and a second chance is what is needed... but that shouldn’t stop liberal arm waving when the chance presents itself. And Yes, if the NFL is a club of Neanderthal owners, players, and viewers, perhaps the wives of these people need to open their eyes and take personal responsibility for the relationships they enter. Before you go off on a tangent, no, I don’t condone the behaviour and yes I think we should have a much broader and louder discussion about it but secular liberals wouldn’t like some of the things I have to day... imagine that. If the NFL changes it will because of money paying fans... as it should be
And to this comment :
“Surely, there are some real combative women in the world who love to fight and argue just as there are doormats who start to become exasperating to deal with because they do nothing but make excuses for the assholes who beat them.”
You can replace the word ‘beat’ with the word ‘abuse’ because they are interchange in liberal lexicon. Do think real hard about this statement and let it play over in your mind when you step in the voting booth to vote for the next president of the United States..... do you really want a doormat leading our country?
A lot of this is just banter TS, I was certainly trolling you in part with that comment as much as calling your comment a troll. That's life a political chat board. I personally don't see the constitution as a barrier to what I think is good for the country. What I do think is a barrier is a belief that in 2014, we are not allowed to adopt any line of thinking that wasn't spelled out for us by the founding fathers. In terms of social justice, I really don't think my thoughts are much different from what I was taught in a Christian school growing up. In this country, however, we have this very weird schizo mentality of believing that people and society should adhere to some moral standard based on religion, yet when it comes to making money and relationships between employer and employees, we assign a value of near God status to anyone signing a paycheck for an employee. Double standard indeed.
DeleteI don't have any rubric to back this up, but I think I am far and away the most even handed at criticizing the political sphere that I allegedly embrace. From posters like you or William or some of the others who are right of center (Lou being an exception), I will never hear a peep of criticism about one of your own unless it is an egregious example like Bush. I accept that there unintended consequences to every action in life, but I'm willing to take that chance once in awhile to get somewhere rather than just sit and do nothing. Life is full of double standards and it's ridiculous to think we can end them. It's not gonna happen. Those with resources will always exploit those without many resources. However, every once in awhile, some rich asshole gets caught publicly doing what he probably frequently does in private and pays a price for it. At such times, I am going to embrace the double standard and celebrate the fall of someone like Rice while I am undoubtedly going to continue denouncing it when it hits someone I can identify with. Double standards make this country both great AND contemptible.
Your final comment there is something I interpret as an assessment of Hillary. Hillary is hardly a doormat and her staying with her husband was a shrewd and very calculated political move. What she did is not in the slightest bit different from what every member of our political system does. Despite suffering a horrible humiliation because her husband couldn't keep his philandering private, she went on to be Senator and Secretary of State. Contrary to your assessment, I see her as VERY hawkish and more than willing to continue Obama's waring ways. Hillary at best is a moderate Republican who grew up very privileged. When you make a ridiculous comment like this at the end of your post TS, it's hard to take you seriously. Banter is one thing and I can take as good as I give, but if this is what you really believe, you can save the effort and I'll just watch some Fox news puppets to ascertain your views about Hillary.
Smiling to himself he says: Banter Huh... OK Max, I will give your comment the benefit of the doubt. Interestingly, we see ourselves pretty much the same and read each other’s comments with the same amount of skepticism. I see you as a dyed in the wool lefty and you see me close to a theocratic righty. I don’t see your ‘even handed’ treatment of the left because for every qualifying ‘Auh Shit’ you pass out 10 ‘Ada boys’ for what appears to be very similar behavior. Your comments indicate that you are defender of the big, social engineering, centralized control left. While you may see your comments as balanced, anyone who believes in states rights that create environments that allow for difference, creativity and healthy competition in a multicultural society, free association and free markets, small government, regardless their reasoning is a bonafied wingnut, complete with a long list of appropriate names.
ReplyDeleteWhen you read my comments, with your system of filters, you throw out a lot of important nuance. When I talk about the damage of government connections with and interference of business, I am not singling out anyone. Crony Capitalism has no political party but it has lots of political connections that couldn’t exist if government wasn’t in the middle of private enterprise picking and choosing winners and losers based on little more than political advantage. When I talk about government size and waste, I am not just talking about the left and when I talk about government passing laws that force social direction, I certainly include the right in my finger pointing. When I talk about military adventurism abroad I am not just talking only about the right. I find it humorous and just a little bit disconcerting that the left deny any connection to the roots of neo-conservatism; the same denial that places Hillary in some right of center camp. Neo-conservatism is Lenin’s central government on a Trotsky global scale! Neo-conservatism is the fast track to liberal Utopia... yet, the left deny any affiliation with .... Those People. Some of the day to day policies once in control may differ but the objective of control is the same... and it was born and raised in the socialist left.
When I talk about the benefits of states’ rights and the disservice that SOME of the provisions of the Civil Rights Act did to blacks and in fact all American liberty, you automatically react with ‘racist’. By thinking that way you choose to ignore the reasoning behind the comments... Of course anyone who, at their core, wants an all powerful federal would find states rights a challenge to your goal and words like ‘race’ and ‘bigotry’ to be the perfect ammunition to counter.
I find your comments about double standards to be curious. The cynic in me would say that the particular ‘isms’ that become crusades of the great democratic defenders of tolerance and inclusion are planks nailed to the democratic platform based solely on the number of votes it will garner; That the ‘isms’ are a means to an end and not the end itself. From my own observation this, picking and choosing happens quite often among white members of the democratic movement. I find them to have a particular variety of self loathing over the sins of their great grand fathers that is, at the same time, maddening because it manifests itself as some kind of egocentric narcissism. Perhaps one is only a mask for the other.
With respect to Hilary... yeah, I meant it. I am curious how you separate the calculated use of her humiliation to reach personal goals of fame and power but dismiss motives and insecurities of ‘lesser’ women as doormats. If winning the political prize is that important and people are so dissatisfied with ‘the crooks in Washington’, why would you hold that kind power seeking personality up as a roll model for future women to emulate and a leader. Undaunted ambition does not equal leader. You can say that my comment was ridiculous but I don’t find your ability to apply relative standards to behavior to be much more serious.