As the SCOTUS paved the way for unions between humans and animals, a mob of hooligans used "Occupy Wall Street" tactics to block Texas from "protecting the health of women" by de facto outlaw of abortion. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/06/26/texas-lawmaker-filibusters-against-abortion-bill/
In addition to outlawing abortions beyond 20 weeks of pregnancy, the bill would have required all abortion clinics to become ambulatory surgical centers, this would have immediately put all abortion clinics in a position of not being in compliance. Seeing that this might not be enough and that eventually some clinics might get in compliance, another provision was added wherein the doctors who performed abortions would have had to have admitting privileges to a hospital within 30 miles of the clinic. Good luck with that if you are rural. What really makes this sweet is that Republicans chose NOT to bring this up during regular legislation and instead called a "special session" of the assembly to ram it through when no one was looking.
Well, word got out and a lot of people showed up. Republicans took every chance they could to silence debate and block filibustering attempts, but ultimately, they did not finish their vote before midnight and lost. Undoubtedly, another special session will be called and this will be reattempted but for now, Texas State Legislators = FAIL
I'm a Republican Christian and like most of my fellow peers, we could care less about this not passing. Heck I even lived in Texas for a few years.
ReplyDeleteIt always amazes me how Liberals think nearly all Republicans want to ban abortions. That's not true at all.
Zzzzzzzzzzz
Oh but if it makes you feel better, give yourself a nice little pat on the back.
"It always amazes me how Liberals think nearly all Republicans want to ban abortions. That's not true at all."
DeleteAnd it amazes me how so many Republicans assume they know everything that liberals believe. You actually raise a valid and good point Live, not all Republicans want abortions banned and in fact, quite a few have a reasoned and principled stand. They aren't all or nothing and would much prefer a nuanced solution. The problem is that the Republican party is openly interested in outlawing abortion. Period. On the one hand, they wail and gnash their teeth over government intrusion, but then demand unnecessary things like ultra sounds and vote for excessive regulation of abortion clinics that does not apply to other clinics with similar risk procedures.
I've stated my views before, I don't like abortion and the number of abortions that occur bothers me. However, as gotta's point below states rather clearly, we have an enormous amount of people who know everything and carry a simple attitude that states, "If you get pregnant and it wasn't intended, you are a whore and a deserve shitty things to happen to you and your child should suffer after birth because you will be a shitty parent". Nothing is said of course of the men who impregnate them, but lets muddy the waters eh?
Max,
Delete"I've stated my views before, I don't like abortion and the number of abortions that occur bothers me."
I don't know how enormous 'enormous' is, but don't disagree there are people who hold that 'simple' attitude you so eloquently stated. I don't care much for gottaloveit's last sentence, but I DO hold to the view about thinking of the consequences before engaging in the action.
Jean
Max,
Delete"I've stated my views before, I don't like abortion and the number of abortions that occur bothers me."
On that I agree. I don't particularly care for gottaloveit's last sentence, but I Do agree with the importance of forethought.
Jean
Max,
Delete"I've stated my views before, I don't like abortion and the number of abortions that occur bothers me."
On that I agree. I don't particularly care for gottaloveit's last sentence, but I Do agree with the importance of forethought.
Jean
It always amazes me when the left is constantly going after gun rights which is a Constitutional guarantee, but unfettered infanticide is just fine. If a woman hasn't decided by 20 weeks, then it is just too damn bad. Perhaps she should of thought about it before she whored herself out.
ReplyDelete"Perhaps she should of thought about it before she whored herself out."
DeleteCharming as always gotta and so insightful to boot. Your intellect and wisdom is wasted here.
Nasty old people.... How dare they want to stop late term abortions, require clinics to be capable of handling the medical procedure that it is and have emergency room access in case it all goes horribly wrong.... If they had put forth a bill to allow unqualified people to do abortions in dirty old warehouses, somebody would bitch. I suppose Obamacare doesn't give a sh1t who hacks on women just as long as they have immediate unfettered access.....Turning, shaking my head side to side as I walk out of the room....
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteThis, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion#Safety is from wiki. If you look at the source links for the data, these are medical journals. Unfortunately, you can't get to the articles without paying. I'm willing to look at what information you have that suggests there is an existing problem in Texas regarding complications of abortions, but of course, I would prefer actually seeing numbers rather then Christian websites that tell you what COULD happen rather then what actually does happen.
DeleteThe Republicans in that state are creating the typical straw man argument and for good measure, you throw in some Obamacare stuff that has no tie to this situation whatsoever. This is not about Obamacare, it's about a Republican agenda to outlaw abortion. Complications can arise from many procedures that are done in outpatient clinics, this is not about safety. Also, why do doctors that perform abortions need to be credentialed at a local hospital? How will that protect the health of women getting abortions?
If we want to discuss restricting abortion in the context of whether it is moral or not, that is one thing. The context being presented here, IMO, is a false one. Part of what's in place right now is that a woman seeking an abortion is required to have an ultrasound AND sit there and listen to a doctor describe what they see. What about that is medically necessary? The answer is nothing. Context IS important.
Part of what's in place right now is that a woman seeking an abortion is required to have an ultrasound AND sit there and listen to a doctor describe what they see. What about that is medically necessary? The answer is nothing. Context IS important.
Delete--------------------
The answer is nothing? Seeing the baby move like a small child may change her mind because the left has brainwashed her into believing "it's just a clump of cells".
So true. The fact that most young women who commit suicide (89 or 90%) mentions their sorrow for having one.in their last letter. Although having had an abortion was not THE push for taking their own life it is an important enough event to have mentioned with sorrow. MANY women regret their abortion but lets not talk about them lets talk about the money machine a.k.a. abortion mills in the United States.
DeleteIf you really want to have an abortion then do it on your own dime... bty when you go before God make sure you tell Him that it is a womans' right --- good luck....
Even "Roe", the woman in Roe v. Wade regrets what she did.
DeleteLook, I do not want abortion made illegal. I want it to be regulated, rare, and a last option.
I want it illegal to murder innocent babies especially in their mothers womb. If abortion is justified in one then it is justified in all cases if it is wrong in one then it is wrong is all others. Fact of the matter is that abortion stops a beating heart.
DeleteWhen the Angel Gabriel came to Mary and asked her to carry the sone of the Most High she accepts...
"And the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."
of course today He would only be called a zygote...
"The answer is nothing? Seeing the baby move like a small child may change her mind because the left has brainwashed her into believing "it's just a clump of cells"."
DeleteBingo. There is no medical purpose as you clearly state. However, there is an enormous psychological warfare component. Believe it or not Angie, I respect your comments here because they are honest. What the asshole Republicans are doing in Texas is a fucking sham. They know they are trying to end abortion and they don't give a shit how heavy handed and fascist they are acting to get their way. Likely though, you probably don't care either Angie as long as the outcome is one you agree with.
Your comment gotta, is typical of what I hear from many white dudes. Basically, if a woman has an abortion, it's because she's a whore and has been brainwashed by the left into thinking it's okay. You are no less of a sanctimonious asshole then I am. At least I can admit it.
What I would love to hear someday from a conservative is an actual acknowledgement of the impact that economics and lack of support has in the decision of electing to have an abortion. From white idiot dudes it's simply a matter of being whores and not closing their legs. For Christian women, it's a different dogma, but no less judgemental and condemning.
Wrong again Max. I have had to console many women after the fact and that is not easy to take. The pain that they suffer is not celebrated for it is felt. One cannot turn back the clock are redo those things that weigh so heavily on their conscious.
DeleteUntil you have had to help pick up the pieces of the lives that abortion had scared bite your tongue. There is right and there is wrong and abortion is wrong no matter how you try and explain it.
Max,
Delete"What I would love to hear someday from a conservative is an actual acknowledgement of the impact that economics and lack of support has in the decision of electing to have an abortion."
Of course that can be acknowledged, Max. But it has little to do with other reasons for not being in favor of abortions, even if one allows for situations to permit abortions.
Jean
OK, this is tiresome. I've been trying to post for about a month, and at best, after I've logged in with my GMAIL account, I can preview, but get "Your comment will be visible after approval." above the empty text box. It seems my invitation has expired. I emailed Twinsdad, but haven't received any response.
DeleteSuggestions?
Thanks.
Jean
"What I would love to hear someday from a conservative is an actual acknowledgement of the impact that economics and lack of support has in the decision of electing to have an abortion."
DeleteOf course there is such an impact, but that has little to do with why some may object to abortions, even allowing for exceptions of rape or incest.
Jean
"There is right and there is wrong and abortion is wrong no matter how you try and explain it. "
DeleteWhen you make things that rigid, you will accept any means necessary to get what you want. What the Republicans in Texas are doing is very heavy handed and pretty much unconstitutional. However, they are also lying their asses off and selling it as a defense of women story. You likely agree with much of the Republican platform, so the means doesn't bother you. If Democrats acted in a similar way, you would be screaming from the top of any tall building you could find. Maybe you need to go back and read your post of the Germans again.
I believe many women do regret the decision and I do not take that lightly. On the surface though, the best they can get from Republicans before the abortion is to be judged a whore and ultimately, not worthy in God's eyes. Like I said in the comment above, what I never hear from Republicans is an honest acknowledgement that a lot of women have abortions because they'd rather face that emotional pain of getting the abortion than bringing that baby into a world of poverty and misery.
The conservative/Republican outlook is that life is about personal responsibility. Put another way, if you get pregnant and the man walks or you don't have enough money to raise the baby, too fucking bad, you should have thought of that ahead of time. I believe Republicans and Conservatives could launch an enormous campaign to adopt babies of any color and truly give women an option besides abortion. Additionally, since conservatives are so terrorized by the thought of no longer being a majority, why not take these kids in to feed the Christian army and rebuild?
HEY!
ReplyDeleteLet's talk about the Komen Foundation.
Recently, the Komen Foundation has had to cancel their race for a Cure event in several cities.
Progressives state that this is because people were punishing the Komen Foundation for temporarily withdrawing support from Planned Parenthood. WHAT IDIOCY! This lie has been spread via the media as well. The TRUTH is, many people thought the Komen foundation was SOLELY about breast cancer research and treatment. They did not realize that the Komen Foundation was filling up the coffers of planned parenthood. Money is fungible so the KF was funding (directly and indirectly) abortions. That's why they are still floundering even though they have gone back to their position.
Live, can you explain this to me, how is money fungible when it's the Planned Parenthood but somehow not fungible when the US Chamber of commerce takes in foreign money and claims that money isn't used to buy political ads?
DeleteI would genuinely like an explanation to that.
I never made that argument Max. It would be fungible for both places.
DeleteI'm guessing some Republican said it wasn't since you brought it up. I obviously disagree.
Well, I appreciate that honesty. Hopefully you feel the same in the next election cycle when they do it again.
Deletehttp://www.numberofabortions.com/
Deletehttp://www.nrlc.org/abortion/images/asmf8a.html
Deletehttp://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/DEabortiongraphic.html
http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/index.html
The Pain of Partial-Birth Abortion
DeleteDuring the first year after the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act was introduced in mid-1995, many opponents of the bill, such as NARAL's Kate Michelman and syndicated columnist Ellen Goodman, insisted that anesthesia given to the mother painlessly kills the babies before they are pulled feet-first from the womb and stabbed through the back of the skull. But in congressional testimony in 1996 -- virtually ignored by the news media -- this myth was emphatically refuted by the heads of the two major professional societies of anesthesiologists. Other experts testified that the babies are alive and fully capable of experiencing great pain during a partial-birth abortion.
Thanks William. Where would we be without your spam and lack of willingness to anything besides post links. Is it a slow day spamming for Monsanto?
DeleteEagerly awaiting your responses Max to the subject matter. Oh I forgot, you don't even attempt to justify the 56 million plus babies that have been aborted in the US since Roe v Wade.
DeleteAs always you just spew.
The subject matter was the topic I posted genius. Your subject matter here is entirely something different. The narrow view of folks like yourself is that this is murder. Therefore, all differing views are summarily irrelevant. I would like to see the number of abortions reduced and I would also like to see this country truly commit to building a country where children born in bad circumstances are not condemned to a shitty life. Your goal is to end abortion. Period. There isn't much to discuss.
DeleteI am happy to see that you support a reduction in the number of abortions Max. How would you propose we as a society go about this?
DeleteTick, tick,tick,,,,tick,,tick
DeleteCat got your tongue Max?
Just so you know, my work schedule is Sat, Sun and Mon. Sometimes I read a few of these in the morning before I go to work, but not all. To your question, thanks for asking it.
DeleteSome people in this country consume a lot of information and make their own choices. Sadly, many do not. If you really want to shape opinion, you need to broadcast your message in prime time. How many people really understand the process of adoption unless it affects them in the moment? I see commercials on TV for a lot of things, I would not be outraged to see commercials that discuss adoption and in fact, I would welcome it. In addition to all the other shit we bombard kids with, it would be nice to see some education so that kids would understand there is truly a choice between abortion, raising that child in a shitty crime infested neighborhood or giving that child to a couple who will love that child and be grateful for it. This would be one step, but not enough by itself.
Coupled with this would be a need to continue evolving acceptance for racially diverse families. We have made a lot of progress here, but there is room to go. Unfairly, perhaps, I am asking the Christian community to be the ones to step up and start this crusade. Not because I don't think the left will be willing to participate, but because the Christian community can claim much more moral authority while dealing with the inevitable backlash that will come from both white and black communities who will be afraid of losing their identity. Half in jest, I made a comment awhile back for Christian whities who are afraid of being outbred, here is you chance to increase your family and multiply your views in the world when your adopted children carry them forward.
These next couple of ideas will have no support from the Christian right, but I put them out there anyway.
DeleteFairly or not, I ascribe a view to right of center that goes like this, if we give access to contraception, or allow abortion or encourage adoption, we are giving unwed people a green light to fuck their eyes out and have no consequence while they destroy society. Put another way, we want to outlaw abortion and contraception so that slutty women either get pregnant or knocked up. Thrown in here is also a personal responsibility meme of, "Why should I pay for it?" I think the right needs to choose here, what is more important to you? Reducing the number of abortions or enforcing what you believe is God's will. IMO, if you reduce abortions through providing stable homes, you are much more doing God's work then you are by calling people whores.
I personally believe there is much hostility towards a woman who is in the position of pondering an abortion. Instead of working on the solution, a psychological warfare is waged on her with shock pictures of abortions, promises of eternal damnation and on and on. It doesn't help. I would welcome a national program that acknowledges that adoption might actually be an act of love FROM the mother giving the baby up because she knows she doesn't have the resources to care for that child. Again, if you are obsessed that this only happens to slutty women, there isn't much to discuss.
The second thing that conservatives will likely never accept is to allow same sex couple to adopt and have the same made up benefits we extend to hetero couples with children. As most of us have commented elsewhere on this topic, I don't think we need to rehash it here. I get your point and why you believe it is forced acceptance.
A difference I believe I have with many of you is that the moral judgement piece and personal responsibility piece is something you don't want to let go of. Morals and responsibility are certainly a piece of the problem and I personally believe our society is very indulgent and irresponsible. I will even go a step further and say that I see a correlation between people stepping away from religion and the increase in the seeming lack of shame for anything. This hasn't happened overnight and unwinding it won't happen overnight either, but something needs to give.
DeleteIf the prime solution is to just outlaw abortion, I see that as a head in the sand solution. I get it, irresponsible people fucking outside of marriage should know better and should have some consequence and we shouldn't condone it. However, given the irresponsibility we see across the spectrum in this country, why should pregnant women be held to a standard no one else is? The response to that of course is that they should be held to that standard because there is a human life involved. To which I say, fair enough, BUT, if we say "Keep the baby you whore" and then wash our hands and say "don't ask me for a stinkin dime to support your mistake" I don't see much humanity in that. This is where things stand today.
Thanks for the responses Max. I don't think the people of Texas are calling anyone who--es and I don't think placing a 20 week restriction on the process is calling for it's elimination.
DeleteI totally support your promotion of adoption. I don't quite get where you are going with the racial diversity angle concerning the issue at hand.
I know you are much more concerned with overpopulation and the allocation of resources than I am. Understandable positions open for debate. Harping on disagreement and calling people extremists based on their pro life leanings I completely do not understand.
People are going to continue to get pregnant Max. Do we as a society want to waste the lives of another 50 million souls over the next few decades?
I think we are better than that.
"I don't think placing a 20 week restriction on the process is calling for it's elimination."
DeleteThe problem William is that is isn't about late term abortions; it's about ending abortion period. Look at what other states are doing as well, the are openly admitting that the goal of restrictions is to reduce abortions period, not just late term abortions, but all abortions.
Because I'm a leftie, I don't get taken seriously on talking about government overreach, but this is exactly what it is. Ironically, Perry won't a no texting while driving bill, but he is willing to sign a law that just about shutter every abortion clinic in the state. You of all people William would be spitting hair balls at what Perry is doing IF you didn't agree with his goal.
To your third para, it works both ways William. You can't portray the entirety of the left as careless airheads who don't give a shit about life and come back and claim you don't like being called an extremist. People are going to pregnant and they are going to continue having sex simply because they enjoy it. That reality rubs a certain segment of our population the wrong way but it is reality nonetheless. While we may save the life of the baby, which is not a bad goal to have, the life of both the single mother the baby are seldom on a trajectory that leads upward. We dont' want to pay for the baby's food, we don't want to spend much on it's education, and if the baby doesn't grow up educated, we sure as shit don't want to pay it much in market place, not if it means I pay an extra 75 cents for my triple sized bag of double stuff oreos and 2 bucks more for ammunition for my bushmaster.
This is not the point where I suggest massive government programs. Instead, I am hoping that someday the Christian right takes this upon themselves and shames the rest of the country into lending a hand. The general position of the right, or I should say the Republican party in this case, is open outlaw of abortion. And in some states, they are succeeding. What does it really mean to waste a life William? When we save that life and tell them, "You;re on your own from here cause I did my part by making sure you were born" are we really doing God's work. THIS is also a debateable point and it is also where the angrier extremism comes into play.
As we’ve said before, there have been numerous versions of human life amendments proposed over the years, some of which include exceptions for rape and incest and some of which don’t. For details, see our July 31 item, “Falsifying Romney’s Abortion Stance, Again.” Most of these amendments didn’t get out of committee.
DeleteThe plain fact is, the only human life amendment that ever came to a vote in either house of Congress allowed exceptions. That was a 1983 measure, S.J.Res 3, sponsored by Republican Sen. Orrin Hatch of Utah and co-sponsored by Democratic Sen. Thomas Eagleton of Missouri, among others.
The Hatch-Eagleton measure would have proposed for ratification a constitutional amendment that said simply, “A right to abortion is not secured by this Constitution.”
That failed by a vote of 49 to 50, falling far short of the 67 votes required for approval. Article V of the Constitution requires that two-thirds of both the House and the Senate approve a proposed amendment before it goes to the states.
But had that amendment been proposed by Congress, and then ratified by the state legislatures of 38 states, it would simply have negated the Supreme Court’s 1973 Roe v. Wade ruling declaring a constitutional right to legal abortion. That would have returned the matter to the states and Congress to decide through legislation. Those bodies would have been free to keep abortion legal, or outlaw it, with or without exceptions.
Here’s what the 2012 GOP language says, as approved by the platform committee in Tampa on Aug. 20:
GOP Abortion plank: Faithful to the “self-evident” truths enshrined in the Declaration of Independence, we assert the sanctity of human life and affirm that the unborn child has a fundamental individual right to life which cannot be infringed. We support a human life amendment to the Constitution and endorse legislation to make clear that the Fourteenth Amendment’s protections apply to unborn children. We oppose using public revenues to promote or perform abortion or fund organizations which perform or advocate it and will not fund or subsidize health care which includes abortion coverage.
Again, this makes no mention for or against exceptions of any sort. It doesn’t mention rape or incest at all.
To be sure, it’s possible to argue that saying an unborn child has “a fundamental individual right to life which cannot be infringed” amounts to a call for an abortion ban without exceptions. But that’s not an interpretation shared by Romney, or by the authors of the amendment, for that matter.
Just to be sure we weren’t missing anything, we contacted the amendment’s author, James Bopp, who is also co-chairman of the party platform’s Subcommittee on Restoring Constitutional Government. He told us what he has told others in the news media:
James Bopp, Aug. 23: The Republican Party plank endorsing a Human Life Amendment does not take a position on which version of a Human Life Amendment should eventually be adopted. We leave that decision to Congress and the people of the United States at that time. Thus, we do not take a position on which exceptions should be included in a Human Life Amendment.
http://factcheck.org/2012/08/another-abortion-falsehood-from-obamas-truth-team/
President Obama comes out against ban on sex-selection abortions; National Right to Life says Obama “stands with the pro-abortion political committees and his Hollywood donors, rather than with the coerced women, and their unborn daughters, who are victimized in sex-selection abortions.”
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nrlc.org/Sex-SelectionAbortion/Release053112.html
Obama cares for unborn women about as much as he cares for daughters in Afghanistan.
DeleteTalk about a war on women.
"Talk about a war on women."
DeleteWe are, the one being waged in Texas.
The Bill will be reintroduced and passed. That is the will of Texans.
DeleteThey value life.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Delete"They value life."
DeleteYeah, their execution record supports that statement. You are correct though. The bill will be reintroduced and if they have to surround the house with the national guard and block citizens from having their voice heard, they will do so.
Like I said to Angie William, you support the end goal so you don't care what means are used to accomplish it. This is actually very Alinski like. Whether this is really the will of a majority of Texans is questionable. While the Republican party retains a plank of their platform openly committed to shutting down abortion, a fair amount of Republicans or right leaning people have adopted a more moderate position wherein they don't like it but don't want to see it taken away.
As a group, the Republican party has said they will simply use local legislation to restrict abortion so tightly that they effectively outlaw it. This is the same thing they are doing with voting laws in order to try and shit elections to what they desire. You can continue to come here and pretend that shit smells sweeter when you call it dung, but others will eventually come to their own conclusions. Even if people agree with some positions Republicans take, they are going to tire of their heavy handed way of doing things.
You, of course, will not believe this nor will anyone else who is so fervent. I'll concede this, Rick Perry is eventually going to get his way and for a period of time, abortion is going to be severely restricted in Texas. Whether people are happy with the method and the outcome in the long run remains to be seen.
Take a look at one or two of my links above Max. Take a look at how the babies are ripped apart and sucked out Max.
DeleteDr. Gosnell was keeping some of these parts around as momentos I suppose.
Being born to a disadvantaged family is not pleasant Max. Less pleasant still is never inhaling a breath of life.
"Being born to a disadvantaged family is not pleasant Max. Less pleasant still is never inhaling a breath of life."
DeleteThis is very easy to say until you actually live there William. Try living in some shitty ghetto and avoid being sucked into a gang. Try living there and getting ahead when the school in your community are shitty or you grow up talking like an uneducated idiot, and this goes for whites as well. Children become what they see around them when they are growing up.