So, today we have a story that Ben Carson actually worked with aborted fetal tissue back in the 90's. http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/08/13/ben-carson-no-apologies-for-1992-fetal-tissue-research/ While there will predictably be shills on the left who scream about hypocrisy, I see a bigger issue. Having worked as a nurse now for 10 years, I have seen plenty in the medical field that I know would make the average person, "uncomfortable" to hear about. As a practicing MD, which he was at the time, I tend to believe Carson probably had a much more matter of fact of view about the tissue he was working with and probably didn't give it much thought, almost certainly not as much thought as he gave to the importance of whatever work he was doing. Now that he has stepped back and is running for POTUS, he is able to reprioritize his views to fit his presidential aspirations, rather then his aspirations as a member of the medical field.
Another article I read, which is long, makes another good example. http://www.vox.com/2015/8/13/9140849/planned-parenthood-videos-unedited This article, I think, offers a much fairer perspective of the whole PP fiasco. It's not about violating the law, it's about abortion, and clearly, there is NOT a common thread that runs through the videos that indicates PP is out to intentionally break the law. Without a doubt, there are many uncomfortable things said, and there are also clearly attempts by the makers of the video to suck PP representatives into saying something that can be used for a case to defund them. And without a doubt, there are also clearly indications that other members were acting very in line with the law. One person in PP and one incident in Carson's life does not describe the entirety of either.
In response, Carson has said he doesn't apologize for using that tissue, and also that it would be silly to ignore what he learned from that research just because we are queasy about how the tissue was obtained. Someone could have a field day with that quote by taking it out of context, and that would be extremely dishonest. Likewise, the entrapment videos against PP are basically the same thing. The propaganda of today is become more sinister because of the availability of media and ease with which things can be edited and spun any number of ways. I don't think many people have to time or patience to really look into what is being presented. Further, given the abundance of truly biased media sources, both left and right, it is easy to sit back and let others think for you.
Stormy was right. Idiocracy wasn't just a cute, funny movie taking a satirical jab at our society and our politics. It was prophecy.
ReplyDeleteAll the candidates know that no federal money is spent for abortion but totally ignore the fact when advocating defunding Planned Parenthood, which will have no effect on the number of abortions. Rubio, today, says he will break off diplomatic relations with Cuba if elected. He also stated that such a move would have no effect on U.S. businesses because everything in Cuba is owned by the Castro family and the military. Why are Ford and GM frothing at the mouth, not to mention the cruise ship industry, at the prospect of doing business in Cuba and booking cruises to Cuba? What on Earth are they thinking? A number of candidates have stated that they will kill the Iran treaty, even they know full well that the other signatories will go ahead and lift sanctions, thus negating any effect such a move would have. They also say we are "giving" Iran billions of dollars,
ReplyDeleteeven though that money is Iran's to begin with, as they well know. Propaganda? Goebels is smiling in his grave.
You are insane. Equating the handling of tissue from surgery with organizing the illegal goulish sale of baby body organs is deranged.
DeleteWell Mick, is he smiling at you and your comments?
Delete"You are insane. Equating the handling of tissue from surgery with organizing the illegal goulish sale of baby body organs is deranged."
DeleteTherein lies the problem. In order to get the "gotcha" footage, those videos had to be edited in a particular manner and there is inconsistency in those who are interviewed. This group opposes abortion, opposes PP and has an agenda to get them defunded. That PP may be breaking the law is really inconsequential and the group would not be satisfied if PP tightened up it's practices.
William, have you read Dr. Ben Carson's recent statements regarding his use of fetal tissue from abortions? He has stated that he favors such usage and has published a research paper based on it. I didn't realize the good doctor was insane, he seems quite sane to me. All my statements are accurate, you can check them yourselves.
DeleteUtilizing tissue and farming tissue are two entirely different things. PP is making a business of harvesting baby tissue to help keep their abortion mills open. Max may deny that their minions were caught with their pants down, but they were caught with their pabts down on numerous occasions. And if anyone thinks some of the half billion dollars a year we grant to the desendants of Margaret Sanger aren't used to fortify abortion they are full of shit.
Delete"PP is making a business of harvesting baby tissue to help keep their abortion mills open."
DeleteAnd again, this is not accurate. Abortions are happening whether the tissue is sold to a research firm or not, they are not being done to procure tissue so that it can be sold. Arguably, one person from PP said some things that could be construed as not within the law. That said, she had coaxing to get there from a person who had an agenda to make her say something illegal and even at that, it is hard to objectively say this person intentionally went out to break the law. As the Vox article shows William, there is not a clear line of wrongdoing or avoidance of wrong doing. One person from PP gave the filmmakers what they were looking for, others did not even in the face of coaxing and prodding.
Open, honest, opposition to abortion is one thing. Entrapment for the sake of propaganda is another.
As that infamous person said, at this point, what difference does it make? Who cares anyway.
ReplyDeleteThe hilarious part is the media totally ignores the left candidates and their past, especially Hilly's and digs deep for this garbage.
As an under-employed twentysomething radical across the border in Vermont, Sanders preached that sexual repression causes breast cancer, responded “Don’t all mammals eat the afterbirth?” to a woman describing how she dined on the placenta after delivering her baby, and ridiculed as repressed a society that compels clothes upon its children. “Now, if children go around naked,” Sanders mocked, “they are liable to see each others sexual organs, and maybe even touch them. Terrible thing!”
That was actually kind of my point Lou. I think it's propaganda to bring this up about Carson, a propaganda in line with the PP videos. Those videos have an agenda to defund PP, nothing more. Bringing this up about Carson is about getting a sensationalized point. We have reached a ridiculous phase in our political process wherein we reach backward to find the most obscure, inane comments a candidate has ever made, take them out of context, and claim they have relevance in the present day. People said and did a lot of crazy shit in the 60's, and then a lot of them quit smoking weed and taking LSD and came to realize how baked they were. What Sanders has done in his time in the Senate is certainly fair game and if people don't like that, God bless. I think it's a little silly that in our system, no one is ever allowed to change their mind when presented with new information.
DeleteThe left and right present that as a flip flop and we certainly cannot have that even of was 10 or 20 years ago.
DeleteWe are over a year from the election and I am personaly sick of all of it and truly wish they would all go away.
For someone who has been in an elected position, I think their votes and speeches are fair game, that said, I still believe people have the right to say I voted one way, saw an outcome I wasn't happy with, and subsequently changed my opinion. For a guy like Trump, I really don't care that he has had three wives and basically has been a pompous asshole in the past. That he remains a pompous, whining asshole in the present, however, is relevant. I don't really hold Carson's use of tissue and subsequent abortion position against him, to be a Republican you must blindly be opposed to abortion, it just goes with the turf. Admittedly, Democrats seemingly can't be opposed to abortion, just to throw that out there.
Deleteto be a Republican you must blindly be opposed to abortion, it just goes with the turf.
DeleteYour kidding.
I know many Republicans that are not against or for abortion. The feel people should make their own choices and live with the decision. With that comes government should not pay for abortions.
Generalizations are seldom totally accurate.
Like the Democratic party there are many factions in the Republican party.
I meant the candidates. To be a Republican candidate, you must oppose it, and be a Democratic candidate, you must support it. Given the way that abortion polls in the country, I have no doubt there are plenty of Republican voters who feel exactly as you say there.
DeleteIt's why we need a viable third party.
DeleteDr. Carson is currently running second in Iowa polling. The left predictably reacts with a smear campaign. Dr. Carson recently clarified his stance about fetal tissue research in a TV interview. He does not support aborting babies for tissue farming putposes.
Delete"He does not support aborting babies for tissue farming purposes"
DeleteThere you go again. Nobody, repeat nobody, supports aborting fetuses solely to obtain fetal tissue that can be used in research. And while you think Carson has made this clear as can be, note that he also has not come out as strongly in saying that fetal tissue should not be used once it is procured. Which kind of goes back to the issue at hand, what do you do with the tissue that is left from an abortion?
This, of course, is where it gets uncomfortable, but nonetheless requires open discussion at some point. It is illegal to sell this tissue for a profit. The group that made the videos wants everyone to believe that PP, as an organization, is seeking to happily kills babies for profit. The videos do not prove this. What they do show is that one person interviewed, could be coaxed to say something damaging, when taken out of a bigger context.
What everyone fails to address is the person obtaining the abortion signs away the rights of the baby, tissue, fetus or whatever people would like to call it.
DeleteIf they sell the tissue, it's revenue to Planned Parenthood. As to profit, accounting is everything.
Max two separate PP executives on two separate videos both were negotiating over tissue. Manipulating the late term abortions so valuable body parts were saved.
DeleteWhy did the judge order the videos blacked out? There are still more videos in the pipeline. PP may provide some advantages to women's health nut the decipals of Sanger do exist. These gould are real.
Damn spell check.
DeleteIn the alleged "negotiations", however, it was the video people talking the price higher and encouraging the PP representatives to accept it. As Lou said, accounting is everything. There is a cost to PP to process the tissue, what that cost is, isn't made clear. One woman seemed to bite on the producers suggestion that with more money coming in, more women could be helped through other services. An uncomfortable and possibly illegal stance, but not clear cut in my opinion.
DeleteA word about Sanger. Carson, you, and others are getting a lot of millage out of bringing her up, and it's more propaganda. If we wanted to engage in a similar type of bullshit slant, how bout the fact that Jefferson OWNED AND BONED slaves? So I guess it's not rape when you own them? Sanger may indeed have been a eugenist, at a time when America in general didn't really like black people, and she, and undoubtedly many others considered the black race to be inferior. There is a lot of historical shit that today, looks ridiculous and at times downright offense in light of today.
It's a clever but nonetheless bullshit ruse to blame the presence of PP for the amount of abortions in the black community. Abortion is far from being the only service that PP offers to African American women.
The Black Lives Matter crew should he protesting in front of every PP abortion mill in the country.
DeleteNobody is forcing the women to have abortions William and again, PP offers a full array of services to African American women other than abortion. That's an interesting acknowledgement of the Black Lives Matter movement.
DeleteBottom line William.
DeleteSCOTUS has ruled abortion legal.
Bottom line, every person that decides abortion is their choice bears the responsibility and the consequences of that decision. Some have a conscious, some do not.
America is about choices. You do not get to be the moral conscious of America. It's a person choice and the consequences are the the individuals.
Have all the abortions you want Iou. Just don't make me pay for them with my taxes. Let the Sanger's of the world raise their own blood money.
DeleteI support choice. I don't support government payments for poor decisions of people.
DeleteYou nor I am the moral compass of the country.
I'm stating my views. You're stating you views. In the mean time another thousand lives were ended yesterday by PP. Another thousand lives again today. Another thousand loves again tomorrow.
DeleteThe PP mindset has softened our brains.
Another video has been released. A heart beat after term is snuffed out for tissue farming.
DeleteThe videos will continue.